Milan a hard campaign

[y2day]

Just wondering what the stradegy is for Milan campaign. I was testing out a few new symbols and before I new it I was 15 turns in and in trouble. Well not in real trouble but a little concerned. I've been to almost ever faction to offer an alliance and nothing. I offered France everything except one of my 4 starting settlements and they refuse even a very generous offer. The same for Venice and Sicily. I was only trying to get some friends to take on the HRE. Noone else has attacked me but I have not expanded at all. Not sure how many turns I'm in now but HRE has been sending half to full size stacks every turn as well as their king, which I happily killed. France and HRE have been at war for many turns but I think HRE is getting the better of it. Everytime I assemble a full stack to burn and pillage through the HRE countryside I find a full stack and a half on my doorstep. I think if I would have went on the offence early I would have had better success. Now I feel boxed in and continue to upgrade cities and defend my land. I was wondering should I still try to bring down the HRE or turn to france or Sicily? maybe the spain? that is if I ever get the chance to go on the offense.

I have never played as Milan. Venice, Sicily, HRE yes but never Milan, hard to believe since I've been playing ME2 since release.

[pwf224]

I love playing as Milan. It is the hardest of the Italian factions and has a very unique position which allows you to expand anywhere.

What I would suggest is that you turn Ajaccio into a town. You then want to build mines and roads and ports everywhere and try to get Florence to grow by dropping the tax rate. Money will be a little short at first, but you should be able to slowly build up a decent treasury while playing defensively in your cities.

After a while, you can slowly train up a decent army of genoese crossbows and italian spear militias, grabbing a few mercenary spearmen here and there. When you have a full stack, attack Bologna. I would maintain the siege for a few turns because they have a decent garrison script and will most likely defeat you if you siege right away. If you are really lucky, a relief force will attack you and you can fight on the open field. Once you take Bologna you are in a fairly powerful position. Bologna will net you alot of money if you build it up right. One of the first things I build there are paved roads, which boost trade significantly.

After you take Bologna, you will enter a turtle mode again and play defensively until you are ready for your next move. During this time, the HRE will send almost everything it has at Milan. If you have boosted your Papal relations with a few thousand florins and don't go on the offensive anymore, the HRE will most likely get excomm'ed. At some point in the war, you will be able to go back on the offensive. France and Denmark are probably chipping away at the HRE too, and their stacks cannot be endless. When you feel you have the advantage, see if you can attack Bern. Bern is fairly well developed, and gives you a castle in a great position if you want to reinforce Northern Italy, or attack France/HRE later on.

Next step can be one of 3 things: France, Venice, or Sicily. Depending on the strength of your military, I would probably attack France first and try to take Marseilles. DO NOT ATTACK VENICE OR SICILY WITHOUT DFK's or ARMORED SERGEANTS. Both the dismounted and mounted Norman knights will chew your infantry to pieces otherwise, as will the Venetian Heavy Infantry. That is why you should wait to attack the Italians until you can field a decent army. Alternatively, you can pass on France and try to take Ancona. Ancona is great because it is in the perfect location to attack Venice or Sicily. However, taking it will be tricky since by now it will be in Venetian or Sicilian hands.

Once you have Ancona, you need to wait and build up towards DFK's and Feudal knights there, shipping down some genoese crossbows to serve as your missile troops (you don't get better missile troops from castles for quite some time, so get used to using these guys). Armoured Sergeants don't hurt either, and can hold their own against most units. When you are ready, decide where to attack. Your choices are Naples or Venice. Both are extremely hard to capture, but will cripple your enemy and give you alot of cash. After that, ship down some reinforcements since you will likely face a brutal counter-attack, play defense and chew them up, then make an offensive push.

As soon as you capture an Italian capital, you're on your own. Milan is a very unique campaign. All you nieghbors are stronger than you, but you also have a strong economy to help compensate. It take a while to build up the military technology to face many of your neighbors, and when you do they tend to have stronger ones anyways. The key is to build up a numerical advantage, take a city, and play defense.


It's funny that you put this thread up. I've been playing a Milan campaign in my spare time and am at turn 30 currently. The HRE gave me a real run for my money. I took Bologna before I was ready, and left Milan poorly garrisoned. I was hoping to take Bologna and hurry back to Milan before the HRE attacked. I was too late though and lost Milan. I was set back significantly, but fortunately the HRE was excomm'ed. I then retook Milan and several turns later took Bern, which prompted the HRE to sue for peace. They wanted Bern back, but instead I bought them off with a lot of gold. Right now I am deciding whether or not I want to attack Sicily or Venice. France is my ally so they are out of the picture. I usually like to attack Sicily since Venice is nearly impossible to take without advanced technology. However, Sicily has a powerful military and is difficult in its own right. Oh well, no one said Milan was easy, lol.

[y2day]

Thanks pwf224, I have already upgraded Florence and the other starting settlements as well. Bologna has been my goal from the beginning. I will take your advice. I have never liked the crossbow unit that is why I have avoided Milan, but must say I'm have a lot of fun. Thank you again for the advice.

y

[pwf224]

no problem. I've had plenty of time to develop a sophisticated milan strategy. they are one of my fav factions due to the balance of difficulty in every direction and the potential if you can play your cards right.

[y2day]

Bologna is mine! I was out numbered 1000 to to 750 but took it with the formal HRE general that has the city ancilliary. My young princess married him a while back. He was also the one to kill the old Emperor in a battle north of Genoa. It is sweet beating them with their former General. Venice is upset with me for moving the army through thier settlement on the way to Bologna. I've sent them money but I guess it wasn't enough as relations are still far from good. I have only been able to secure one alliance and it is with KOJ, so not much help. Venice, Sicily and France still refuse even a very genrous offer. The Pope has ordered the me to stop spilling the Emperors blood and the Lithuanian heathens have joined his flock. Seems a New World has been discovered as well. Almost on turn 30 and having a blast. I kept the island Castle and in 2 more turns will have DFKs to recruit. Now not sure want I want to do...... but will have some fun doing it.

[pwf224]

The HRE probably got a similar message so maybe you can get them excomm'd. In my Milan campaign I got the HRE excomm'd and managed to get a crusade called on Frankfurt. Portugal captured Frankfurt, but during the war I managed to capture Metz and Innsbruck. I gave Metz to the french allies, and then used my leverage against the HRE to get them to hand over hoesenhoffen and Vienna as well. Now I own all of switzerland and austria. The HRE is my vassal and is acting as a buffer between myself and the baltic states. In order to help them rebuild, I'm giving them a tribute of 20000 a turn. Most of it comes back to me anyways, but it should keep them strong for a while. I've decided to attempt a pseudo-Roman Empire as the Milanese. I plan on building up my army and attempting to take out Venice. My Prince has the "Hates Venetians" trait, and Giorgio Rossi is 65 years old, so when he dies I plan on delcaring war on Venice. I'll have to break my alliance with them first though, in order to give them time to reposition their troops. I'm having loads of fun with this campaign as well. I've never tried to recreate the Roman Empire either. I got close as the Byzantines when I captured most of Italy, the Balkans, and the Middle East, but I got bored. Hopefully I'll see this one to the finish.

[y2day]

pwf224, this is fun comparing campaigns. We should do it again sometime. Thanks for the tips. I think I will keep my older lower tear units as a garrison for my cities incase Venice, Sicily or even the Pope who has two full stacks just to the south sitting there for the last 10 turns decides to attack. I will build a full stack of units from my new completed barracks at my castle and send them with my young 18 year old 5 star general stomping across the HRE, once they are damned by the Pope that is. They just got back in his good graces after I killed their Emperor a while back. If not I'm sure the greedy old Pope will look the other way once I fill his pockets. Recreating the Roman Impire as Milan sounds fun. I have done it with the Byz and Venice. Sounds like you are well on your way, I will see what opportunities my campaign gives. I may just follow in your footsteps unless someone jumps up and bites me.... or I get bored. lol

y

[Dave Scarface]

Too bad I never got this kind of reporting in beta testing I thought you were too busy to play M2TW for a few more weeks pwf? And where did everyone else on beta testing disappear too? Its like they all suddenly decided nah, let him test it himself, I'll just wait till release.. At this rate my new mod will not be released until next summer sadly for this community. Because I will not release it until it is ready. Thats how bad the current rate of activity is..

Sorry for off topic rant guys, I apologise, its a nice thread, but just reminded me that everyone else is probably having fun playing ETW or KGCM 4.1 or something while I work almost alone on this new mod *sigh

Dave

[Grislok]

I am still alive Dave and near turn 20 on Moscow. Will report soon. I have a hideous confession in that while I have not played ETW since 1.2 and focused on my KGCM Aztec campaign, I could not resist trying ETW after 1.4 and to my shock....for the first time....I do not feel like it is just plain unlikeable.....and, in fact, it seems extremely enjoyable. I am GB on VH/H and it has been gripping. I have split the last five nights between the two, but have felt guilty and aim to return to my beta-test work full time because it has been so sweet to become a part of that which has given me so much pleasure. A year ago when no other mod could help my primitive computer knowledge ass play hot seat with my buddy on one computer...KGCM did. My Aztec campaign was my most enjoyable ever and during the process of reporting on it, the patience of SF and Dave taught me enough to become part of the KGCM team, and this I value deeply. How's that?.....I saw your off-topic rant and raised you an off-topic confession! I will report on Moscow soon....damn Mongolians!

[y2day]

Dave RANTS!!!! Sorry Dave don't mean to laugh, believe me I know what you are going through........and don't ruin my fun with pwf.

Didn't have time tonight to play, but I do hate to see Dave suffer so..... I will download the beta to my laptop since my computer with the current beta on it is down. Look for my report soon Dave. Milan must wait it seems, but I shall return and destory the HRE if it is the last thing I do.

y

[pwf224]

I'm only 30 turns in over the past 2 weeks. this past weekend i had a little extra freetime so i got a few more turns done. if i had more time i would beta test the new mod, but i really dont at all. if you need me back i'll come, but my beta testing will come at a very slow pace due to sparse and sporadic time to play.

[Ak1980]

Easiest way to play Milan, beat the Moor first while defending your city from HRE.

Took all neutral cities in mediteranian.
Combine your army and send excess troop to Moor province. At least you can get 3-5 province (Tunis, Algier, The one in small island, The other one below Tunis, The other one left of Algier), while making Pope love you.

Reason to beat Moor first
1. Most of Moor city in africa don't have script garrison, so it's very easy to assault them.

2. Moor like to combine their troop in Iberian Peninsula, so most of their city only have 1-2 defender ^^

3. After pope love you more, call for crusade, and point at Moor capital. Pope always love someone who beat non catholic faction.

4. Sooner or later HRE/Sicily got excommunication, attack the one who got excom. don't forget to call for crusade against them. HRE always stuck later in the game, they simply have to many enemy.

5. You need place to expand right? where else better to expand beside africa, to place where no other european faction bother (beside sicily)

[y2day]

Ak1980 - Thanks, for the advice. I had thought of leaving the Moors to Sicily and the Spainish, but you make a good argument. A nice adventure for my young Hier... taking Northern Africa is always fun.

[pwf224]

I've found that fighting the Moors early isn't the best idea. Sicily usually tries to take Tunis and Cagliari no matter what your diplomatic stance and your forces can get stretched dangerously thin. Before expanding into Africa you need to deal with the Sicilians or you will be in serious trouble. Those Norman's are one tough nut to crack.

[Ak1980]

Yes, it's hard and you need some luck to do it, basically it's fighting 3 way war against sicily, moor and HRE. But it's doable and the payoff is great. Sooner or later sicily will attacked you anyway. Beside the other way to expand is fighting HRE or France while the Pope still love them. Not a great choice either.

Usually after capturing several city from Moor, the Pope will agree for your call to crusade against Moor.

Anyway fighting defensive war against Sicily with Tunis and Cagliari as your base is simple. Let them assault your city ^^
Just don't forget to leave a boat to move your troop from Cagliari to Tunis. I found the Ai will assault your wall not just simple siege you, if you have reinforcement stack coming near their sieging army.

[pwf224]

I find France easier to control with some money now and then, and the HRE never has much papal favor. Opening a front against Sicily before you have the resources to field decent troops is near suicide. It's much easier to build up your army to comparable levels using DFK, FK, and Armored Sergeants with some powerful genoese xbowmen, and use superior tactics to maneuver around them to take key cities such as Naples and Palmero. After that, it is easier to sit back and defend until they wear themselves down, before you move in for the killing blow. I usually let the Moors and Sicilians fight over Cagliari while I work on consolidating my position, and when I am done with the Sicilian threat, taking Cagliari and Tunis from the Moors is a piece of cake because your troops are so much stronger than them.

To each his own though. That is why Milan is so fun. You can expand in so many unique ways and come into contact with very diverse enemies and situations.

[Zerosliver]

I didn't find Milan to be very hard though, if you get Bologna very quick from the HRE(trough diplomacy).
Get a lot of trade rights and youl be swimming in gold.

[y2day]

I didn't find Milan to be very hard though, if you get Bologna very quick from the HRE(trough diplomacy).
Get a lot of trade rights and youl be swimming in gold.

Yes I noticed this a few rounds after I captured Bologna. I play a turtle campaign and was almost 30 turns in before I took Bologna or any other settlement so was having fun just fighting off the HRE. I also felt very threatened as no one seemed to like me at all. No alliance was excepted even when the offer was "Very Generous". I really hadn't been in that position, seems I could always secure one border with an alliance, although sometimes I do set house rules to not make an alliance but I'm prepared for it going in. This Milan campaign really had me scared for a while. lol I love it, haven't felt that way in a long time.

y

[pwf224]

I modded my descr_strat and gave HRE, England, Byzantium, Moors, and Egypt more starting gold and increased their king's purse slightly in order to have them perform a little better. I also like to gift large sums of cheated gold during the campaign as I see fit as well. Makes everything harder IMO

[Ak1980]

Want harder campaign? Fight against The Mongol Horde using Kiev Rus, near imposibble i think, using new XAI =D

Playing as TO VH/VH XAI 3.4 against Mongol, they have lots of troop. Every turn i destroy 2-3 stack in defensive war, 10 turn later, they still have 20++ full stack troop swarming my country that i can see with my spy T_T
Don't know how much more troop they have in their area.