Playing as Lithuania, need help

**cedric37** · September 28, 2009, 07:05 AM

Hi,

I am playing as Lithuania now on H/H (SS 6.1 - Early Campaign).

Both economy and military are poor and it is so difficult to make money, so i cannot build good units... (i have now 1,5 full stacks of "good" units and plan to get 2 but i won't have any money left each turn).
First turns were quite sad but happy, i was just waiting with my crappy army (built of mercenaries at 30-50%) that kievan or russians weakens rebel settlements by assaulting them (and fail...) then i could easily took them.

It worked well for Hrodna, Minsk, Riga, Polotsk and Talinn. Then i managed to conquer Turku and Visby and finally installed myself in scandinavia; in Uppsala... (with an army made with 80% of mercenaries)
I also maked alliance with Russians (maybe my biggest mistake), Kiev and poland... to be able to concentrate on Scandinavia.

Well.... Norway and Denmark were at war, so i thought it would be easy but Norway soon took back Uppsala and was about taking Visby.
So i allied with Denmark, and exchanged Visby and Turku for Kalmar and Skara (a good deal IMO), giving me a strong military anchor in Scandinavia.
In the mean time, i managed to conquer Nykoeping and took back Uppsala.
Now i am about to attack Oslo and it seems i get military advantage (at least...) so i don't doubt that i will finally crush the norse... (i hope ^^)

But i have no clue what should be my next moove...

Either i take foot on british isles and try to crush scots / irish (attacking denmark is out of question since they are allied with HRE and both are much more powerfull than i + they are allies).
Or i attack one of my former weakest allies (russians or kievan), by previously ally with one of their ennemies to avoid destroying my reputation (which is very good now)...
But conquering the east is long, logistics is poor and cities are not so rich (except novgorod, kiev and kazan).
On the other hand attacking the british (catholic factions are a pain when you are pagan...) will expose me to crusades on vilnius so it is also very risky.

I can also turn on cumans/kwarezm (i get military access from both russians and kievan) and let russia/kiev between me and my ennemies but this could be a very bad moove too. (+ cumans are more powerfull than i currently, but in fact 25 of the 28 factions are already more powerfull than i ^^).
Finally i can fight poland (need also to break alliance first...).
So what do you think ? I have a little preference for the british isles (and take the risk of enduring a crusade on me).

Thanks for you to advice.

**Tyrenia** · September 28, 2009, 08:07 AM

My first suggestion... ALLY WITH THE POPE

! Give him whatever he wants, just do it! He provides a useful shield against Catholic Aggession (as long as you stay on his good side).

Then, I would get Denmark to cancel its alliance with you (do this by attacking one of their allies, massing troops on the border, leaving settlements near to them 'free' (hide a stack in the woods nearby)). It is important that you do not leave any enemies at your back before your next move, and Denmark can become a pain if left untended.

After defeating the Norwegians and the Danes, I would suggest taking Poland, to give your heatlands in the east a buffer from the Catholic Factions that will soon by calling for your blood (I would recommend an alliance with the HRE against both Poland and the Danes to secure your borders).

Finally, you can do what any good Lithuanian should do, conquer the East. Destroy the weakling Rus and the Cumans! While the east is not always the easiest or most worthwhile of places to conquer, with a strong economic centre in Scandinavia and Poland it should be made easier. And with conquest of the East, the way to the riches of Greece and Anatolia is opened. Even if you choose to leave the Cumans as a buffer for the Mongols, the Black Sea makes a great base for gaining an offensive against a usually beset Byzantine Empire.

I would advise not going to the British Isles for two reasons:
1. It is too far away from the rest of your empire. I know all too well the folly of trying to invade somewhere too far away from your homeland. Your stacks will become weak from constant warfare, and supply lines will be too long for you to easily replenish them. As well as this, the disorder that you get from the distance to your capital is massive. It becomes too difficult to maintain
2. This will make trade from Norway almost non-existant, and will only anger the Catholics even further (as you rightly pointed out, this is NOT a good thing)

Let us know how your campaign progresses

**cedric37** · September 28, 2009, 08:32 AM

Thanks for the quick answer and good advice.
You are right with the fact that having an extended empire is not that good... and let ennemies in your back is very bad too.

I will try your suggestion to concentrate first on scandinavia ( = cash; arhus, roskilde, lund are rich cities ^^) after allying the pope as you suggested.
It will be quite easy to take back Turku, Visby (they are poorly defended now since that i have exchanged these settlements for Kalmar/Skara ^^ ) . I must then take Hambourg quickly (this is their main castle).

If i can prevent danes to recruit new armies, it won't be so hard to finish them off; because they have not so many settlements now.

Before doing anything else I also can try to exchange Hambourg with a less interresting settlement; it seems he cannot resist any suggestion from my "9-hearts" princess ^^. If danes are so silly to accept this trade, their fall will be even quicker... as they won't be able to recruit good units anymore.

**Tyrenia** · September 28, 2009, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by cedric37

Before doing anything else I also can try to exchange Hambourg with a less interresting settlement; it seems he cannot resist any suggestion from my "9-hearts" princess ^^. If danes are so silly to accept this trade, their fall will be even quicker... as they won't be able to recruit good units anymore.

Hamburg will also provide a good strongpoint for the defense of Scandinavia should the HRE get greedy. They may well end up doing this

Also, gotta

the 9 star Princess. Just make sure you choose her a nice strong general to settle down with

Good luck

**Staffen** · September 28, 2009, 08:57 AM

Arhus and Novgorod are extremely rich cities. Nuff said.

**cedric37** · September 28, 2009, 10:42 AM

Exactly, once i will have all scandinavia (including the rich Ahrus), i will have enough money to extend to the east. I just hope that i will be able to crush norway very soon and make peace with the pope

I just have to send my 9 star princess

-> 6 stars were acquired after her great job of making alliance with denmark and trading a small town and a "just build" castle with 2 fully equiped castles ^^.
Popes are just men....

I will let you know how things are going.

**Sir Walter** · September 28, 2009, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by cedric37

Exactly, once i will have all scandinavia (including the rich Ahrus), i will have enough money to extend to the east. I just hope that i will be able to crush norway very soon and make peace with the pope

I just have to send my 9 star princess

-> 6 stars were acquired after her great job of making alliance with denmark and trading a small town and a "just build" castle with 2 fully equiped castles ^^.
Popes are just men....

I will let you know how things are going.

Assassinate the Pope if he's of a faction warring with you or he's more likely to call a crusade against Vilnius or Riga (I think).

**cedric37** · September 29, 2009, 02:05 AM

Hi all,

It took me 30 extra turns to take all Scandinavia from Norway. The fight for Oslo was longer than expected because they had 4 full stacks and me just 1,5 ^^ but i did manage to isolate and defeat them 1 by 1 and get frequent reinforcements from Skara and Kalmar castles. After that taking Bregen and Eikundarsund was not a big deal (although he had 2,5 stacks and me only 1,5 as usual ^^).

I also allied with the pope (although he did not like the fact i destroyed norway, since, our relationship is very bad, but we are still allied).

Now i think that things will be getting better, i get 2 fortresses and 2 big cities and start to earn money and i can recruit deadly giltine's chosen units. I wait until i can make up an army of quality before to extend again (denmark is my next target).

I must also prepare myself for the emergence of the teutonic order, and send them a warmfull welcome ^^ (or maybe a much better option - if possible - let them fight polish and danes, and then take back all the conquered settlements).

I will let you know how things are going.

Note: my military ranking is still very bad, like 21st but from now it will really start to improve.

**Tyrenia** · September 29, 2009, 07:09 AM

Hmm... Here's a strategy I used in vanilla to avoid conflict with the Mongols, and this may work for you (depending on whether they've improved the AI in this way).

Try taking a settlement that is quite far away from where you are, then, when the Teutonic Order Emerge, gift it to them. This should cause The Order's armies to migrate far away from you, and start building their empire in another corner of the globe. With the Mongols, as Turkey, I would Jihad to a settlement in Spain, gift it to that horde of pure evil, they watch as they lay waste to my European foes on the way to their new homeland, while the AI gets confused as to how this could possibly be happening

Continue to post updates. It will be interesting to see how this progresses.

**Sir Walter** · September 30, 2009, 11:02 AM

I always ally too much, playing as Novgorod I can't attack the Rus', the Cumans, the Norwegians or the Lithuanians and I was allied with Denmark until they declared war on the Holy Roman Empire...

**cedric37** · October 01, 2009, 02:24 AM

10 turns later (around 135)...
I exchanged Vilnius, Hrodna, Riga, Polotsk & Talinn, which all together gave me like 4500 florins/turn for Bruges, Groeningen and Hamburg (all 3 settlements give me like 6000 ^^ + Hamburg was the house of the hanseatic ligue).
I then awaited that he moved his capital Ahrus more to the east (at Lund), and exchanged half of my scandinavian settlements (uppsala, nykoeping, kalmar, skara and oslo which all together gave me like 3000/turn) for Ahrus (which gives me 3000/turn).
Result: i am richer and my empire is more compact thus much more easy to defend (and less corruption).
Also i finished to conquer all great britain from scots (William Wallace emerged but the scots were destroyed before he could even start to move).
London give me 4500/turn and i moved my capital to Bruges, which in exchange boosted my income in all my british cities + bruges/groenigen.
I had like 500 florins/turn left before and now i have 13k left/turn.... (i have approx 21k of armies upkeep)
My overall ranking is 1 ^^ and military like 5-6; but this will start to improve now that i have cash.
Finally poland has attacked denmark and right now i choosed to keep my alliance with danes, since i have not consolidated militarily my borders near them and polish are only neighbour to my future citadel (pop.16000, but it is stll a fortress until i pay for the upgrade) in Hamburg so i don't care about them.
I am now about to land in ireland and destroy them, and after that i plan to attack french (who have only 3-4 settlements left).
After that it depends on diplomacy and opportunities ^^ Wait & See.
This game is great fun, even when you think that you have made huge mistakes and all is lost you can shuffle your cards and take new ones ;-)

**Sir Walter** · October 01, 2009, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by cedric37

10 turns later (around 135)...
I exchanged Vilnius, Hrodna, Riga, Polotsk & Talinn, which all together gave me like 4500 florins/turn for Bruges, Groeningen and Hamburg (all 3 settlements give me like 6000 ^^ + Hamburg was the house of the hanseatic ligue).
I then awaited that he moved his capital Ahrus more to the east (at Lund), and exchanged half of my scandinavian settlements (uppsala, nykoeping, kalmar, skara and oslo which all together gave me like 3000/turn) for Ahrus (which gives me 3000/turn).
Result: i am richer and my empire is more compact thus much more easy to defend (and less corruption).
Also i finished to conquer all great britain from scots (William Wallace emerged but the scots were destroyed before he could even start to move).
London give me 4500/turn and i moved my capital to Bruges, which in exchange boosted my income in all my british cities + bruges/groenigen.
I had like 500 florins/turn left before and now i have 13k left/turn.... (i have approx 21k of armies upkeep)
My overall ranking is 1 ^^ and military like 5-6; but this will start to improve now that i have cash.
Finally poland has attacked denmark and right now i choosed to keep my alliance with danes, since i have not consolidated militarily my borders near them and polish are only neighbour to my future citadel (pop.16000, but it is stll a fortress until i pay for the upgrade) in Hamburg so i don't care about them.
I am now about to land in ireland and destroy them, and after that i plan to attack french (who have only 3-4 settlements left).
After that it depends on diplomacy and opportunities ^^ Wait & See.
This game is great fun, even when you think that you have made huge mistakes and all is lost you can shuffle your cards and take new ones ;-)

Denmark and the Holy Roman Empire usually end up at war at some point so side with the Germans and crush the Danes. Oh, and invading Russia's no problem as long as you don't go so far you'll be out of supplies if you have to retreat! If you do that it's fine

**cedric37** · October 01, 2009, 10:43 AM

Yes good idea, sooner or later i have to take back my native country and danes and i cannot share the same world i'm afraid

But first i must conquer ireland and send french on another planet ^^ or make them my vassals for them to do the cook and bring me some good wine...

**Sir Walter** · October 01, 2009, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by cedric37

Yes good idea, sooner or later i have to take back my native country and danes and i cannot share the same world i'm afraid

But first i must conquer ireland and send french on another planet ^^ or make them my vassals for them to do the cook and bring me some good wine...

The AI never accepts vassalage in my experience. Never ever ever. And never accepts a map information swap (even with a gift of cash on side!), or ever gives map information except in an alliance treaty...

**cedric37** · October 05, 2009, 12:27 PM

In fact situation is as below now:

I am allied with denmark, england and aragon at the moment, as well as venice and the pope (...and egypt... lol)
Current ennemies are: genoa, portugal and of course rebels

EDIT: a few turns later... (179)

I am no more allied with Venice nor Egypt, thanks to a crusade on Jerusalem (held of course by egyptians), and at war with genoa, portugal, sicily and venice.

**Tyrenia** · October 06, 2009, 06:55 AM

Wow, you've come a long way from being unsure about where to go with a small several province state

May I ask why England controls the 3 settlements in Brittany? Doesn't it annoy you that another faction exists in the heartland of your Empire. Purely for neaness sake, you should crush them. And again for neatness sake, pull out of Iberia. It looks messy having just one province there, so take it all or get out

Seriously though, you should finish your conquest of Italy, destroy the Danes, then finish off Poland with a Grand two pronged assault that would do the ancestors of your current Duke proud, as you retake your homeland!

Good luck, and thankyou for sharing such an interesting game!

**cedric37** · October 06, 2009, 07:45 AM

Thanks for your interest.

In fact the red region in iberia is not mine, but an english settlement

For the british enclave in France, yes i do regret they did not join the crusade on Egypt, as i could have a good pretext to cleanse their presence from my back... but one day or the other they will do a bad moove ^^

Right now i am focusing on destroying venice + sicily (at the same time, lol). After that, crushing the danes would be nice if only i could get a pretext to be at war without destroying my rep. Or i can play the bad ugly bastard who will betray his former ally, ignore about his rep and take control of earth just using raw military force

(Don't tempt me!!) LOL

I must say this game is very funny (one of my best since i play SS); and Lithuania units roster very good indeed. My favorite unit is still giltines chose for one unit of them was able to kill more than 250 ennemies (that 's what my battle stats sayed ^^). Ruthenian archers and noble infantry are also great units. I just lack a very good spear unit, as late lithuanian spearmen tends to suck (they most often kill less than thay get killed).

**cedric37** · October 09, 2009, 04:14 AM

I am now turn 193 and moors declared war on me (due to me having palermo settlement...) this is annoying since i don't want to invade africa and just to keep them at bay i have to put strong garrisons all over italy.... I have thrown them back to the sea (they attacked me with 2 full stacks but i had 3 and of better quality) and i am changing palermo into a citadel and will put a very strong army there (i have already maxed Genoa and Venice garrisons too) plus i am bulding an impressive fleet.
I have started in the same time the invasion of Hungary because they seemed the more hostiles of my neighbors and i have planned to pursue on poland/TO.... I don't plan to ever attack Denmark now (unless they attack me first) because they were always very fidel allies (150 turns of alliance for now) and i don't really need to bother with them (i can buy/trade them Riga should i want it back into my empire

).

EDIT: I forgot to say that i have destroyed Sicily and made Venice my vassals (which is fine with me since they possess Ragusa and Duras which are poor settlements compared to the rest of Italian big cities and they act as a buffer between me and the Byz).