Who is truely the worst faction in al M2TW (Vanilla only)

[Emperor Tom]

Many people say hungary but I must really put that into question here...

The HRE is very overrated! Egypt is not really all the speacil either. I find the great archers of england rather lacking to the french which is very strange indeed...Perhaps you can decide who truely is the worst faction as a whole.

[ALZU]

Many people say hungary but I must really put that into question here...

The HRE is very overrated! Egypt is not really all the speacil either. I find the great archers of england rather lacking to the french which is very strange indeed...Perhaps you can decide who truely is the worst faction as a whole.

maybe your a bit too demanding on units capacity?

I think venice sucks, at least in vanilla, not because of the units, but because campaign AI simply screws everything, i always end up fighting an all side war and the pope hates while Milan spawns stacks of elite spear italian militia and Orthodox christians pwn my ass with unrest when i take Byzzies cities

[Emperor Tom]

maybe your a bit too demanding on units capacity?

I think venice sucks, at least in vanilla, not because of the units, but because campaign AI simply screws everything, i always end up fighting an all side war and the pope hates while Milan spawns stacks of elite spear italian militia and Orthodox christians pwn my ass with unrest when i take Byzzies cities

Well, just think about it. Forlorn Hope lack numbers, Imperial Knights are trashed by Feudal Knights, Hungary has weaker Chivalric knights then all the other actions, Longbowmen are considerably weaker than depicted in historical records, I mean come on. I think CA messed up good here!

[ALZU]

longbowmen dont suck at all IMO. Its true, some units like imperial knights and norse axemen suck compared to their stats. But Forlorn hope can do miracles for me, an army of arquebusiers and FH and I can do wonders.

[Emperor Tom]

longbowmen dont suck at all IMO. Its true, some units like imperial knights and norse axemen suck compared to their stats. But Forlorn hope can do miracles for me, an army of arquebusiers and FH and I can do wonders.

Perhaps...if your not dealing with an angry bunch of Familgia Ducale and dismounted broken lancers with some Genoese crossbowmen to outdue your primitive gunners!

[ALZU]

Perhaps...if your not dealing with an angry bunch of Familgia Ducale and dismounted broken lancers with some Genoese crossbowmen to outdue your primitive gunners!

true, I erased Milan early before they became a threat so i dont really know who has better late era units.

england or scotland when controlled by the ai

the hell are you talking about???

[mongrel]

Well, just think about it. Forlorn Hope lack numbers, Imperial Knights are trashed by Feudal Knights, Hungary has weaker Chivalric knights then all the other actions, Longbowmen are considerably weaker than depicted in historical records, I mean come on. I think CA messed up good here!

Add this attribute (in export descr unit) and watch the suckness vanish


start_not_skirmishing

[Awellesley]

Gotta be the Moors. An eight hundred year old civilization never looked so bad. Ugly, ineffective units.

[ALZU]

Gotta be the Moors. An eight hundred year old civilization never looked so bad. Ugly, ineffective units.

but, cammel gunners? christian guard? urban militia? you must be a terrible general if you cant take advantage of those units!

[a4phantom]

but, cammel gunners? christian guard? urban militia? you must be a terrible general if you cant take advantage of those units!

Those are fantastic units, and I'm currently polishing off England and Hungary with them, but there is an awfully long stretch before you get those elite end-game units where the Moors don't have much to throw at a decently rounded European army.

[eggthief]

but, cammel gunners? christian guard? urban militia? you must be a terrible general if you cant take advantage of those units!

Camel gunners are all they have, urban militia is decent it's just a big step up from the spearmen who are just the ultimate suckage and the christian guards are inferior to the knights of the catholic factions.

Moors got my vote, there's a reason why they always lose Iberia.

I think Russia is the worst faction thou, they have bad units AND a terrible starting position, not to mention that they have a 1/2 chance to be the first faction to fight the Mongols.

Russia has an amazing late roster though, best hand to hand cavalry, best musketeers, amazing archers and horse archers equipped like tanks.

[Druvatar De Bodemloze]

Camel gunners are all they have, urban militia is decent it's just a big step up from the spearmen who are just the ultimate suckage and the christian guards are inferior to the knights of the catholic factions.

Moors got my vote, there's a reason why they always lose Iberia.



Russia has an amazing late roster though, best hand to hand cavalry, best musketeers, amazing archers and horse archers equipped like tanks.

sorry me and Eggthief are far from compadre`s but he is defnatly right here! I agree with him




oh I forgot also because in Russia there is so much room for field battles they are in the perfect position to cut them down(mongols) and plus by the time the Mongols appear Russia usually has its full roster

[The Noble Lord]

Venice for me, definitely one of the worst!

[ALZU]

Camel gunners are all they have, urban militia is decent it's just a big step up from the spearmen who are just the ultimate suckage and the christian guards are inferior to the knights of the catholic factions.

?? christian guard is equal to DFKs IMO, besides, you can spam jihads all over europe, you dont have to worry about mongols ruining the game, you have a pretty good position to invade america. And besides, spain and portugal dont have early units either. Yes its true UM are a bit dissapointing, but they are MILITIA, so for their rank they are pretty good, i had halberd militia pwned by peasants.

[eggthief]

?? christian guard is equal to DFKs IMO, besides, you can spam jihads all over europe, you dont have to worry about mongols ruining the game, you have a pretty good position to invade america. And besides, spain and portugal dont have early units either. Yes its true UM are a bit dissapointing, but they are MILITIA, so for their rank they are pretty good, i had halberd militia pwned by peasants.

Yes but Christian guards require a citadel, what can christian factions get with a citadel? Yes thats right, chivalric knights, those are superior.

Invading the Americas is a pointless thing, it's not an argument.

Sure they have their jihads, but that's it.

[Awellesley]

but, cammel gunners? christian guard? urban militia? you must be a terrible general if you cant take advantage of those units!

Camel Gunners are pretty imposing, but by the time you can build them, the Moors are usually wiped out. Christian Guards are basically lower class fuedal knights. Urban Militia are highly over rated considering the great unit they were in MTW. Considering so many units are unarmoured, they should be a lot faster faction then they are. Instead, they cant stand up to western armoured troops.

And I'm not a terrible General. I can win with those troops, but only because I have a human brain. I just feel bad beating up on an AI that cant fight back effectively.

[Robertclive]

england or scotland when controlled by the ai

[SoulBlade]

Scots probably. No special heavy cavalry, no xbows, no gunpowder infantry.

[Ascarona]

but, cammel gunners? christian guard? urban militia? you must be a terrible general if you cant take advantage of those units!

Yeah thats all good and stuff, but those are late era units. Besides Urban Militia isn't that good.
Moorish Early units are VERY bad, you're going to have a hard time fighting off the enemy until you can get some more serious units on the field.

I think Russia is the worst faction thou, they have bad units AND a terrible starting position, not to mention that they have a 1/2 chance to be the first faction to fight the Mongols.

[Oman2nd]

I have never, ever, ever had a decent campaign as Portugal. I always get owned by either Moors or France. only on easy difficulties have I ever gotten anywhere.