Who inspired/taught the Koran to Mohammed?

[Ummon]

This thread is going to be a discussion on who inspired Mohammed into writing the Koran. Muslims assert it was the archangel Gabriel. Are they right? If yes, why? If no, why?

While the material is collected, you may discuss.

For starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhamma...rst_revelation

After mentioning the coming of the Revelation, the Messenger of Allah said: "I have never abhorred anyone more than a poet or a mad man. I can not stand looking at either of them. I will never tell anyone of Quraish of my Revelation. I will climb a mountain and throw myself down and die. That will relieve me. I went to do that but halfway up the mountain, I heard a voice from the sky saying ‘O Muhammad! You are the Messenger of Allah and I am Gabriel.’ I looked upwards and saw Gabriel in the form of a man putting his legs on the horizon. He said: ‘O Muhammad You are the Messenger of Allah and I am Gabriel.’ I stopped and looked at him. His sight distracted my attention from what I had intended to do. I stood in my place transfixed. I tried to shift my eyes away from him. He was in every direction I looked at. I stopped in my place without any movement until Khadijah sent someone to look for me. He went down to Mecca and came back while I was standing in the same place. Gabriel then left, and I went back home. I found Khadijah at home, so I sat very close to her. She asked: ‘Father of Al-Qasim! Where have you been? I sent someone to look for you. He went to Mecca and returned to me.’ I told her of what I had seen. She replied: ‘It is a propitious sign, O my husband. Pull yourself together, I swear by Allah that you are a Messenger for this nation.’ Then she stood up and went to Waraqa and informed him. Waraqa said: ‘I swear by Allah that he has received the same Namus, i.e. angel that was sent to Moses. He is the Prophet of this nation. Tell him to be patient.’ She came back to him and told him of Waraqa’s words. When the Messenger of Allah finished his solitary stay and went down to Makkah, he went to Waraqa, who told him: ‘You are the Prophet of this nation. I swear by Allah that you have received the same angel that was sent to Moses.’"[3][4]

After receiving his "revelation" Mohammed planned to suicide, a deadly sin.

The life of Mohammed tells us:

When it was the night on which God honoured him with his mission and showered mercy on His servants thereby, Gabriel brought him the command of God. “He came to me,” said the apostle of God (i.e. Muhammad), while I was asleep, with a coverlet of brocade whereon was some writing, and said,

‘Read’ I said, what shall I read? He pressed me with it so tightly that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said,

‘Read!’ I said what I shall read?’ he pressed me with it so that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said,

‘Read!’ I said what I shall read?’ he pressed me with it for the third time so that I thought it was death and said,

Read’ l Said, what then shall l read and this l said only to deliver myself from him, lest he should do, the same to me again. He said; read in the name of lord who create, who created man of blood coagulated. Read ’thy lord is the most beneficent, who taught by the pen, taught that which they knew not unto men’. So l read it, and he departed from me. And awoke from my sleep, and it was as though these words were written on my heart,”

(Ibn Ishaq. The Life of Muhammad. (translated by A. Guillame) New York, OUP, 1980. p.81)

Mohammed is not allowed to read, by miracle, but instead made to recite. It is done through violence, in a remarkably rare way which we shall discuss.

[jankren]

I did.

[Arch-hereticK]

I did.

Bahahahahahahahahahahahaha, you got there before me, +rep.

[Copperknickers II]

I did.

I doubt it, unless you are 1500 years old. And if you are going to make inane remarks then i am at perfect liberty to give inane answers.

I believe Mohammad revieved a vision like Moses, most likely brought on by consumption of an entheogenic substance.

[Banana Jelly]

Gabriel told him the words. Mohammed memorised it. Other muslims, wrote the Koran from his words.

[ShADoW]

I was going to say that

[Arch-hereticK]

I was going to say that

The fact of the matter is that all atheists are hilarious, thank you Ummon for pointing this out to us.

[Banana Jelly]

Wait is Jankren a athiest? Damn, his sig's really got me there.

[Arch-hereticK]

Wait is Jankren a athiest? Damn, his sig's really got me there.

I think Israel should be boycotted (I'm related to the first boycott) and I believe in the Palestinian right to Palestine. It has nothing to do with atheism.

[Banana Jelly]

I think Israel should be boycotted (I'm related to the first boycott) and I believe in the Palestinian right to Palestine. It has nothing to do with atheism.

You said "all athiests are funny" So i thought you was relating to Jankren was a athiest. But I didnt know.

[jankren]

Its nice to be an atheist. You can make fun of everyone without being a hypocrite.

Wait is Jankren a athiest? Damn, his sig's really got me there.

Even if you are a Bahai or a Wiccan you should hate Israel.

[boofhead]

The sources of the Koran be reduced to six:

* The Old Testament (canonical and apocryphal) and the hybrid Judaism of the late rabbinical schools. During Mohammed's time the Jews were numerous in many parts of Arabia, especially around Medina. Familiarity with them is undoubtly responsible for many Old Testament stories alluded to in Koran. Later Judaism and Rabbinism are equally well represented (Geiger, "Was hat Mohammed aus dem Judenthum aufgenommen?", Wiesbaden, 1833; tr. "Judaism and Islam", Madras, 1898).
* The New Testament (canonical and apocryphal) and various heretical doctrines. On his journeys between Syria, Hijaz, and Yemen, Mohammed had every opportunity to come in close touch with Yemenite, Abyssinian, Ghassanite, and Syrian Christians, especially heretic. Hence, while the influence of orthodox Christianity upon the Koran has been slight, apocryphal and heretical Christian legends, on the other hand, are one of the original sources of Koranic faith. (See Muir, op. cit. infra, 66-239; Tisdall, "The Original Sources of the Qur'an", London, 1905, 55-211.)
* Sabaism, a combination of Judaism, Manicheism, and old disfigured Babylonian heathenism.
* Zoroastrianism. On account of Persia's political influence in the north-eastern part of Arabia, it is natural to find Zoroastrian elements in the Koran.
* Hanifism, the adherents of which, called Hanifs, must have been considerable in number and influence, as it is known from contemporary Arabian sources that twelve of Mohammed's followers were members of this sect.
* Native ancient and contemporary Arabian heathen beliefs and practices. Wellhausen has collected in his "Reste des arabischen Heidentums" (Berlin, 1897) all that is known of pre-Islamic Arabian heathen belief, traditions, customs, and superstitions, many of which are either alluded to or accepted and incorporated in the Koran. From the various sects and creeds, and Abul-Fida, the well-known historian and geographer of the twelfth century, it is clear that religious beliefs and practices of the Arabs of Mohammed's day form one of the many sources of Islam. From this heathen source Islam derived the practices of polygamy and slavery, which Mohammed sanctioned by adopting them.

He got it from a whole host of sources, but mainly heretical Christians and Jews. Hence it is so full of errors and false stories.

[Ummon]

He got it from a whole host of sources, but mainly heretical Christians and Jews. Hence it is so full of errors and false stories.

That's a possibility. Given that if it had been an angel (assuming angels exist etc.), and specifically Gabriel, this series of actions is not "in-character" at all.

Appearances of Gabriel in the Bible:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Dan. 8: 16
Dan. 9: 21
Luke 1: 5-19
Luke 1: 26-38

15 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and trying to understand it, there before me stood one who looked like a man. 16 And I heard a man's voice from the Ulai calling, "Gabriel, tell this man the meaning of the vision."
17 As he came near the place where I was standing, I was terrified and fell prostrate. "Son of man," he said to me, "understand that the vision concerns the time of the end."
18 While he was speaking to me, I was in a deep sleep, with my face to the ground. Then he touched me and raised me to my feet.

20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the LORD my God for his holy hill- 21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He instructed me and said to me, "Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23 As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:

11Then an angel of the Lord appeared to him, standing at the right side of the altar of incense. 12When Zechariah saw him, he was startled and was gripped with fear. 13But the angel said to him: "Do not be afraid, Zechariah; your prayer has been heard. Your wife Elizabeth will bear you a son, and you are to give him the name John. 14He will be a joy and delight to you, and many will rejoice because of his birth, 15for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.[b] 16Many of the people of Israel will he bring back to the Lord their God. 17And he will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah, to turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous—to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

The Birth of Jesus Foretold
26In the sixth month, God sent the angel Gabriel to Nazareth, a town in Galilee, 27to a virgin pledged to be married to a man named Joseph, a descendant of David. The virgin's name was Mary. 28The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
29Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be. 30But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God. 31You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David, 33and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."

Here we see a remarkable difference in behaviour. On one side, gentle, helpful, immediately causing miraculous understanding, on the other violent, and needing multiple attempts, then settling for another solution.

Additionally, there is another difference: Mohammed is not afraid first, everyone else is.

Everyone else: afraid -> miraculous soothing, encouragement or explanation -> knowledge (Daniel is also shaken, but pious as usual).

Mohammed: not afraid -> rough and multiple attempts -> failure -> alternative method -> knowledge, is shaken and meditates sinful self-destructive behaviour which requires further dissuasion (leaving him forcibly paralyzed until his action is averted by other humans).

[boofhead]

That's a possibility. Given that if it had been an angel (assuming angels exist etc.), and specifically Gabriel, this series of actions is not "in-character" at all.

I had never thought about that before, thanks for the cue

I've always said that if the Islamic prophet didn't just make it up then the angel was in fact not a good one at all.

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

[basics]

And to Joseph the angel said,

" The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel " - which means, " God with us."

[Heinz Guderian]

Hate to spoil the circle jerk, but since Ummon is currently posting in clear english, basics is trying to be concise and actually has a point and boofhead is not telling someone to " off out of his country", i would like to say that i think it would be very unlikely that Lucifer inspired Mohammed because of the whole cutting out alcohol, debauchery, fornication, adultery, sodomy, social injustice, burying daughters alive and giving women land and inheritance rights.

[The Noble Lord]

Hence it is so full of errors and false stories.

You should probably read Noble Quran first and then talk to someone who is expert on the matter and then make your statement. To do it just the way you did beforehand is rather based on presumption.

[Dr. Croccer]

I suspect the Jews.

[boofhead]

Well, I had the impression the comment was about actual muslims doubting the source of various Koranic verses. Come off it, you're talking about a C20th author for the elite English pansies.

[Syron]

Well, I had the impression the comment was about actual muslims doubting the source of various Koranic verses.

Edit: Well yes, throughout history there has been, low level, debate in Islam over the issue of these verses.

If you mean the current Muslim "accepted view", then no.


Salman Rushdie didn't invent the concept........He just took the piss.