Battle AI and Battle options

[Old Crusader]

Hi all, this tread is for discussion and suggestions about Battle AI and Battle options.

My personal experience after playing several mods besides Vanilla is that after a while I get tired of how stupid the AI is and what limited my own options are.

Consequently if this could be improved it would really make the game more fun to play and hopefully more challenging.

I'm aware that there probably are severe limitations in the game engine but I think it could be interesting to list suggestions anyway. So here we go.

* If possible it would be great if AI generals could have different basic strategy, for example aggressive, defensive, or for inexperienced commanders just passive. Maybe this can be done by having different scripts that can be chosen from.

* Rioting troops, I would like to add the possibility for troops (units) to surrender, according to the rules of chivalry, troops that have surrendered shall not regain their fighting, and shall not be touched by your troops, if so there should be a large chivalry penalty.
And rioting troops shall run away from the enemy not as it is now sometimes the opposite.
I also would like to have the possibility to execute prisoners during a battle.

* After a battle I want to have more options on what to do with prisoners, for example sale as slaves, keep as prisoners if the enemy can't pay ransom, or just keep enemy family members as hostage.

* Fighting retreat, I really want to have the possibility to slowly back away from the enemy line but not turning my back on them. This maneuver was wery important during battles, and could be done in order to lure the enemy into a trap. See how Hannibal defeated the Romans.

* Passive troops, I want the option to have my troops automatically engage enemy troops nearby without me giving an order.
Ai troops under missile fire should not just stand there and die, would you?

* Siege battles, It would be more challenging to take enemy settlement's if the AI really tried to defend them, instead of running back and fort to the square.
(A spy shouldn't be able to open more than one gate.)

It should be possible during a sally to bring captured enemy siege equipment into the city, thus rendering it unusable for the enemy, or easier to destroy it by setting it on fire for example. If you manage to destroy the enemy siege equipment then they shall be forced to build new equipment and not be able to assult until next turn.

Missile troops on walls shall fire directly down to the enemy not shoot volleys, what's the point otherwise to build a high wall?

* Enemy artillery (cannons, mortars) should be possible to capture and shall be yours to use. Captured cannons was one of the finest prices you could win in a medieval battle, our museums are still full of them.

Well this is more than I expected to write from the beginning, loking forward to hear what you think.

[Goodfella]

Some very valid points there.

I definately agree with you on the AI improvements and Missile troops on a wall firing constantly rather than in volleys,
i think it would be much cooler to see a constant barrage of 15-20 arrows rather than 100's all at once, then a gap in between. Oo, and a fighting retreat, that sounds very nice... If its possible im not sure but nice idea none-the-less.

[uanime5]

* If possible it would be great if AI generals could have different basic strategy, for example aggressive, defensive, or for inexperienced commanders just passive. Maybe this can be done by having different scripts that can be chosen from.

While this is possible the file that controls the AI's behaviour cannot be changed during the mod, so it'd need to be changed before you started the mod. Though I feel that passive and defensive would be much the same.

* Rioting troops, I would like to add the possibility for troops (units) to surrender, according to the rules of chivalry, troops that have surrendered shall not regain their fighting, and shall not be touched by your troops, if so there should be a large chivalry penalty.
And rioting troops shall run away from the enemy not as it is now sometimes the opposite.
I also would like to have the possibility to execute prisoners during a battle.

* After a battle I want to have more options on what to do with prisoners, for example sale as slaves, keep as prisoners if the enemy can't pay ransom, or just keep enemy family members as hostage.

Hardcoded and cannot be changed.

* Fighting retreat, I really want to have the possibility to slowly back away from the enemy line but not turning my back on them. This maneuver was wery important during battles, and could be done in order to lure the enemy into a trap. See how Hannibal defeated the Romans.

Possibly hardcoded, if not it would be very difficult to change because it would require a lot of new animations.

* Passive troops, I want the option to have my troops automatically engage enemy troops nearby without me giving an order.
Ai troops under missile fire should not just stand there and die, would you?

It's currently impossible to make troops move unless you give them the order to move (unless the AI is controlling them).

* Siege battles, It would be more challenging to take enemy settlement's if the AI really tried to defend them, instead of running back and fort to the square.
(A spy shouldn't be able to open more than one gate.)

As long as the square provides unlimited moral it makes more sense for the AI to hold it rather than the walls. Though changing the AI can fix this.

It should be possible during a sally to bring captured enemy siege equipment into the city, thus rendering it unusable for the enemy, or easier to destroy it by setting it on fire for example. If you manage to destroy the enemy siege equipment then they shall be forced to build new equipment and not be able to assult until next turn.

Siege equipment can be made easier to destroy, though I can't think of any reason why you'd want to bring it into a city? Also how would you bring siege towers in?

Missile troops on walls shall fire directly down to the enemy not shoot volleys, what's the point otherwise to build a high wall?

Very difficult to change as all the archers use the same animation at the same time, so they fire at the same time.

* Enemy artillery (cannons, mortars) should be possible to capture and shall be yours to use. Captured cannons was one of the finest prices you could win in a medieval battle, our museums are still full of them.

I believe it's harcoded so you can't do this. Though only units that know how to use cannons should be able to fire captured enemy cannons.

[Graf Nacht]

Any way to make groups with AI assistance more aggressive/defensive and overall better?

[sumskilz]

Any way to make groups with AI assistance more aggressive/defensive and overall better?

The answer is probably yes, but to a limited degree. I don't know if this is governed by the same mechanisms as general AI behavior. This would be a good question to ask Xeryx http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=637 He has experimented extensively with AI behavior, though I can't personally account for how successful/unsuccessful his efforts have been because I haven't tried his AI yet. It is something that we will look into, but we are not yet to that stage.

[Condottiere SOG]

While this is possible the file that controls the AI's behaviour cannot be changed during the mod, so it'd need to be changed before you started the mod. Though I feel that passive and defensive would be much the same.



Hardcoded and cannot be changed.



Possibly hardcoded, if not it would be very difficult to change because it would require a lot of new animations.



It's currently impossible to make troops move unless you give them the order to move (unless the AI is controlling them).



As long as the square provides unlimited moral it makes more sense for the AI to hold it rather than the walls. Though changing the AI can fix this.



Siege equipment can be made easier to destroy, though I can't think of any reason why you'd want to bring it into a city? Also how would you bring siege towers in?



Very difficult to change as all the archers use the same animation at the same time, so they fire at the same time.



I believe it's harcoded so you can't do this. Though only units that know how to use cannons should be able to fire captured enemy cannons.

With my AI...if you place your army under AI control you will not have to give them commands unless you want to or they are routed....

[Graf Nacht]

Thx for the info, I will definitely ask him and post his answer.

And one more question, is it possible to implement the "attack-move" orders of RTSs, when a unit will move and attack any enemies it comes across in it's path, or the area where the order is issued? For example, take the same AI assisted groups and say order them to "operate" in the given area. Or do so with player controlled groups/individual units?

[sumskilz]

Thx for the info, I will definitely ask him and post his answer.

[Graf Nacht]

One more question, is it possible to implement the "attack-move" orders of RTSs, when a unit will move and attack any enemies it comes across in it's path, or the area where the order is issued? For example, take the same AI assisted groups and say order them to "operate" in the given area. Or do so with player controlled groups/individual units?

[Graf Nacht]

One more question, is it possible to implement the "attack-move" orders of RTSs, when a unit will move and attack any enemies it comes across in it's path, or the area where the order is issued? For example, take the same AI assisted groups and say order them to "operate" in the given area. Or do so with player controlled groups/individual units?

So could this be possible?

[sumskilz]

So could this be possible?

There isn't a way to add any new mechanisms to the battle map interface. Meaning we can't create new orders for the player to give. We can only try to improve the behavior of the units.

[Graf Nacht]

When you put units under AI control, we have found it does use the same as the computer controlled opponent. Which is controlled by the AI files.

When an army is controlled by the AI, it does use the AI files.

[sumskilz]

[xeryx]

Hello, Old Crusader.

I can tell you are new to the game, because I had a few of the same issues with this game when I first started playing it.

Unfortunately, like sumskilz pointed out, we cannot add new features to the game. However, we can highly manipulate what is in there.

As far as AI goes, it is going to be a long arduous journey to make real personalities for the AI. In many ways we are not sure if that journey is worth the effort. We are still trying to get the basic AI to to all the things we need it to do. Because of the hardcode, much of the working with the AI is trial and error. So far, we have made quite a few improvements, and think it is much more fun than previous versions.