Turn an orc/Uruk Hai good?

[Prince of Judah]

Is it possible?

[Thurifer]

Sounds interesting, but how would you change the culture? That's like changing the religion...

[Prince of Judah]

No i mean literally in the LOTR universe not necessarily in TATW.

[Dr. Oza]

no

since tolkien ment for them to be the evil, heartless representatives of the enemies of the christian europe he supported...

[Inarus]

No

Sorry but Orcs were, to quote, "elves once, taken by the dark powers, tortured and mutilated. A ruined and terrible form of life."

You cannot bring a person back from that.

[pannonian]

Tolkien in his later stages was uncomfortable with Orcs as the embodiment of evil. If he had lived longer, we might have had writings that paint more shades of grey in the Tolkienverse. In addition to the 2000th revision of what would be the Silmarillion, of course.

[Devils_Advocate]

Is it possible?

No discussion, give him a little cute puppy, a teddy bear, some candies to eat, a few strokes, let him now that you bear intense feelings for him and you are deeply understanding his dilemma; and then I am absolutely sure he is very uber-tamed.

[Cmdr598]

They're fairly rational and intelligent beings, of course they can be reasoned with. Of course they will probably never be "good" as their violent tribal culture is essentially encoded into their DNA but I'd wager they could be turned into functional members of society.

[Æsir]

They're fairly rational and intelligent beings, of course they can be reasoned with. Of course they will probably never be "good" as their violent tribal culture is essentially encoded into their DNA but I'd wager they could be turned into functional members of society.

I doubt it. Of course they are reasonable, but they have own reason - why work if you can simply rob? You could make them slaves however.

PS Is slave "functional member of society"?

[Cmdr598]

why work if you can simply rob?

Because in Medieval societies this tended to get you killed...not that that stops everyone, human or not.

PS Is slave "functional member of society"?

Maybe in Rome.


One of the problems is that I don't think anyone in ME has ever tried to do anything but wage campaigns of extermination against them when some Great Evil Dark Lord loses the initiative so their best bet for survival is holed up in Mordor or the Misty Mountains. Far enough from anyone important that can be offended by their presence and in sufficient number to deter any thoughts of incursions as entirely too much effort.

[Æsir]

One of the problems is that I don't think anyone in ME has ever tried to do anything but wage campaigns of extermination against them when some Great Evil Dark Lord loses the initiative so their best bet for survival is holed up in Mordor or the Misty Mountains. Far enough from anyone important that can be offended by their presence and in sufficient number to deter any thoughts of incursions as entirely too much effort.

I have heard such stuff - "bad" people are bad only because of bad actions from "good" side. But let's be honest - it works only till some ork kills one's relative to rob $12,25..

[eskrogh]

we do know that they can work together with men.. etc dunland tribemen and we do know that they can be turned against other evils...
isnt it up to the maker/lord tha controls them?..

[Evan MF]

I don't like the way Harad and Rhun are bound do closely to the eye. They were men too and bot permanently bound to evil.

[Seleukos_I.]

They obeyed Sauron like a god, so it makes much sense that they listen to whatever he says.

[B5C]

I don't like the way Harad and Rhun are bound do closely to the eye. They were men too and bot permanently bound to evil.

The reason why the Harad and the Rhun allying the with the Dark Lord is their anger with Gondor. Gondor was the biggest threat to their empires.

[Evan MF]

I wonder if Saruman's intentions were so evil. What if Sauron was defeated before Saruman and Saruman defeated Gondor and Rohan. Would it be a peasceful rule?

[Prince of Judah]

I wonder if Saruman's intentions were so evil. What if Sauron was defeated before Saruman and Saruman defeated Gondor and Rohan. Would it be a peasceful rule?

I guess that is possible. Saruman didn't exactly say he wanted a nice outcome though. The forests will burn, man will fall etc..

[Hermes Trismegistos]

I guess that is possible. Saruman didn't exactly say he wanted a nice outcome though. The forests will burn, man will fall etc..

These were his words in the film. In the book he said much nicer things (OK, mailnly to convince someone, so probably a lot of lies mixed between), for example to Gandalf:

"We can bide our time, we can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order; all the things we have so far striven in vain to accomplish, hindered rather than helped by our weak or idle friends. There need not be, there would not be, any real change in our designs, only in our means."

I think Saruman was himself convinced, that he did still fight for the greater good, only after he realised his defeat he began to turn to pure destruction out of envy and fury.

[RomanGuy]

If by "good" you mean less violent and less love of killing, then I don't think so. If you mean maybe have them form their own civilization and interact with other cultures without necessarily killing those other cultures completely, that may be possible if they weren't manipulated by Sauron and such. Still, I think they have an innate sense of aggression and violence.

[Salil]

If by "good" you mean less violent and less love of killing, then I don't think so. If you mean maybe have them form their own civilization and interact with other cultures without necessarily killing those other cultures completely, that may be possible if they weren't manipulated by Sauron and such. Still, I think they have an innate sense of aggression and violence.

Us humans had an innate sense of aggression and violence once as well. As did dogs, cats and most other carnivores. Anything can be tamed, when given enough time.