cavalry

**smeak4** · September 24, 2009, 02:09 AM

hi just a quick question. im am a player of RS and BC for m2tw. and i find a MASSIVE difference in cavalry between these two mods. in RS when cavalry charge a unit of naked fanatics for example they dont kill many at all probably about 20. while in BC when a unit of templars charges an amoured enemy they almost kill them all. now i know the lance made a difference but was it this big? why is there such a massive difference? has one mod got it wrong?

thx

**tone** · September 24, 2009, 02:16 AM

Well templars were an elite....but I would say that killing nearly all of an armoured infantry unit with one charge is somewhat excessive.

The other big change between the eras was stirrups.

**smeak4** · September 24, 2009, 02:56 AM

thx for quick response, just quickly are the spartans underpowered?? becuase quite a few of romes later legions can beet them pretty easily without using their pillums

**Titus Maximius Thongus** · September 24, 2009, 04:50 AM

guess it pretty accurately depicts the spartan's eventual decline due to their dogmatic rigidity to their outdated tactics.

**Theoroshia** · September 24, 2009, 07:29 AM

Kinda sad really. I view the Spartans as Russians; too obsessed with one time period to grow at all.

**pcp** · September 25, 2009, 04:30 AM

Is a little legend that the cavalry could destroy a infantry's unit, cavalry in ancient times would not dream of attacking units in the least well deployed and disciplined infantry

**MutantHippie** · September 25, 2009, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Theoroshia

Kinda sad really. I view the Spartans as Russians; too obsessed with one time period to grow at all.

Sounds like the Byzantine Empire also for that matter >_>

**intel** · September 25, 2009, 04:53 AM

Cathaphracts?

**tone** · September 25, 2009, 06:05 AM

even cataphracts kept clear of head-on confrontations

**intel** · September 25, 2009, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by tone

even cataphracts kept clear of head-on confrontations

Well, not at Carrhae

Yes, I know that they attacked tetsudos. But I think that if anyone, then they are most competent cavalry to perform frontal charge. At least, they should be able to wreak havoc amongst lighter armoured infatry.

**TheAeneas** · September 26, 2009, 02:29 AM

consider what a difference such a simple thing as a "stirrup" would have in battle, I ride every now and then, and I can only imagine the difficulty in galloping on a horse with a blanket as a saddle and no stirrups! I imagine that in a charge, it would very likely lead to a fellow being thrown off his horse due to the forces involved and the lack of an effective means to hold on to the darn horse! imagine yourself charging into an enemy infantry formation, and with the force of the charge dissapated, you have been seperated from your fellow warriors and are now among the enemy infantry formation, how easy it would be for them to unhorse you and then when lying on the ground from the fall simpy stab/slash/bludgeon you to death with whatever they had around or near them... with stirrups, you would greatly frustrate any efforts to unhorse you due to your increased stability and leverage.
Then again, what do I know!

**seleucus megas** · September 28, 2009, 02:38 AM

Originally Posted by TheAeneas

consider what a difference such a simple thing as a "stirrup" would have in battle, I ride every now and then, and I can only imagine the difficulty in galloping on a horse with a blanket as a saddle and no stirrups! I imagine that in a charge, it would very likely lead to a fellow being thrown off his horse due to the forces involved and the lack of an effective means to hold on to the darn horse! imagine yourself charging into an enemy infantry formation, and with the force of the charge dissapated, you have been seperated from your fellow warriors and are now among the enemy infantry formation, how easy it would be for them to unhorse you and then when lying on the ground from the fall simpy stab/slash/bludgeon you to death with whatever they had around or near them... with stirrups, you would greatly frustrate any efforts to unhorse you due to your increased stability and leverage.
Then again, what do I know!

descripted like that, with my imagination i'm really sad to be a cavalry man ahhhhhhhhhhhhh ...
hope beter cavalry in RS II

**Sandrus Castus** · October 02, 2009, 08:36 AM

Please read the following.

http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/vie...p?f=17&t=27253

**Alavaria** · September 26, 2009, 11:15 AM

Amusingly, if you have cataphracts charge into the front of a prepared (braced) unit of militia hoplites, they'll kill maybe 20 to 40 men.

Then again, a volley of pila from a unit of hastai or javelins from those light infantry carthage has is also capable of killing 20 to 40 men.

**intel** · September 26, 2009, 11:58 AM

True. Pila have almost identical effect as a charge in terms of casualties. And can be just as much effective in breaking the enemy morale if thrown at the back. I often found myself placing the legionists at the enemy's backs and ordering them to throw their pila. Nonetheless, cavalry has some advantages over legionists' secondary weapons, those beings:
-Legion lacks speed compared to the cathaphract unit, it's too big and clumsy for rapid flanking
-Cavalry charge doesn't kill your infatry

The advantages over cavalry charge are:
-you don't need to be in contact with the enemy to inflict casualties. Even perfectly placed charge can cost some casualties on your side.

**Alavaria** · September 26, 2009, 01:19 PM

Archers shooting the enemy's back are very effective. Moreover, when the enemy starts spreading out and do, a cavalry charge doesn't do too well.

In the special case of Silver Shield / Royal Pikemen / Elite pikemen, cavalry will take large losses, even in a clean rear charge. And there's all those times the cavalry won't form up properly, get the edge of the formation caught on something, etc etc.
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The point, though, is that a cataphract heavy cavalry charge kills about as many people as a volley of javelins from peltasts, which is quite funny.

**intel** · September 26, 2009, 01:31 PM

I hope that it will be fixed in RSII. In RS 1.5 cataphracts are pathetic. Smaller than average unit size, and they're unable to beat even Hammipos (or whatever this Greek Light Infatry is called) infatry. I already saw that the unit size will be increased. Right now, their only use is anti-cav.

**thebull0425** · October 07, 2009, 02:34 PM

The Pila is the main weapon, it can decimate any enemy. I use cavalry so I don't get flanked by cavalry, and to wipe out generals, and to charge into the backs of enemy units engaged. Totally a support weapon, but an effective one. I also use cavalry to mop up fleeing units, don't like to leave survivors.