Denmark Vikings

[bgunter]

I was watching history channel barbarians about the vikings and they were showing scandinavia as Norway and Sweden. From what little I know about Denmark I was under the impression it was concidered a part of scandinavia also. But my question is were there vikings from Denmark? Where they part of what we think of as vikings today or where there any difference? It seems like at least from the history channel show they gave all the for lack of better word "credit" to Norway for the vikings. Thanks to any one that i'm sure more knowledgeable then me on this topic for answering.

[Aetius]

Cnut the Great, King of Denmark was the greatest Viking King to have ever lived.

The Danes Christianized a bit earlier than the rest, but they were usually the most powerful.

[bgunter]

Really I did'nt know that thanks for the quick reply Aetius

[Last Roman]

Cnut the Great, King of Denmark was the greatest Viking King to have ever lived.

The Danes Christianized a bit earlier than the rest, but they were usually the most powerful.

eh, the Norwegians were nothing to sneeze at. They were the ones that founded Dublin, and were the ones who reached North America. As per the Swedes, they generally went east into Finland and Russia and beyond.

[Adar]

I have a related question. How did the border with "the Romand Empire of German nations" work? When we look at the westgoing Viking raids we always read about them attacking England and sometimes France. Was there some kind of agreement between the Scandinavian kingdoms and the German empire?

[RTW Fan]

I have a related question. How did the border with "the Romand Empire of German nations" work? When we look at the westgoing Viking raids we always read about them attacking England and sometimes France. Was there some kind of agreement between the Scandinavian kingdoms and the German empire?

I assume that you are talking about the Holy Roman Empire and yes, it went a little something like this:

Viking "Cousin, We will not bother to raid you unless you make it a lot easier for our ships to travel through your territories"

German Prince "That is ok cousin, we will not bother being part of punitive raids, you are too cold and poor to make it worth our while."

No but seriously, there were always fluctuating deals, the problem was that vikings were sea farers who used their naval mobility to be able to concentrate superior forces at any one point, That is why coastal areas, and particularly Britain and Ireland, were so vulnerable.




Notice the proximity to WATER.

[Last Roman]

I have a related question. How did the border with "the Romand Empire of German nations" work? When we look at the westgoing Viking raids we always read about them attacking England and sometimes France. Was there some kind of agreement between the Scandinavian kingdoms and the German empire?

The German lands were also subject to raids, but England more so because, it being an island, even the interior was only a few days march from the coast.

[Poach]

The German lands were also subject to raids, but England more so because, it being an island, even the interior was only a few days march from the coast.

Nowhere in the British Isles is more than 100 miles from a coastline, it was indeed perfect Viking raiding ground! Added to that is the fact that its just across the North Sea, it's not only a perfect Viking raiding island it is also local!

[Tiberios]

I have a related question. How did the border with "the Romand Empire of German nations" work? When we look at the westgoing Viking raids we always read about them attacking England and sometimes France. Was there some kind of agreement between the Scandinavian kingdoms and the German empire?

As far as I know for Denmark at least, several Danish viking kings had some trouble with the Holy Roman Empire. The threat of constant raids on coastal cities and towns on the large rivers however, was an important tool to keep the Germans at bay. The threat from the HRE was probably also one of the most important reasons as to why King Harald Bluetooth converted himself and the Kingdom to Christianity, to prevent the HRE Emperor from getting Papal approval for a Crusade (landgrab).

[diegis]

Well, i know that was a period of time when Denmark was called Dacia, and i wonder how danish historians saw this, let say, confusion. There is as well an interesting writing, "Gesta Normanorum", where is said that the first duke of normans, if i remember corect, was a refugee from Dacia (and the country is quite acurate described, including the "core" of Dacia, later known as Transilvania- sourounded like a crown by mountains, etc.). His name was Rollo, a name not quite meet in nordic areas, but who is very close to geto-dacian names as Roles or Oroles.

[Wagnijo]

The Dania/Dacia conflation is well known. The example from Dudo's Gesta Normannorum is just one example.

Actually the start of the confusion can be observed in the earliest letters between papal administration and the
danish state.

The papal scribes insist on using Dacia instead of Dania probably because Dacia was well known to them
from litterature. The Danish scribes who initially used Dania in the communication with the papacy, then
changes to Dacia under the influence of the "learned" papal scribes.

BTW Rollo is simply a french form of the nordic Rolf.

[razor-]

Danish Vikings primarily went to Britain and France where they founded Normandy and held a very sizable part of England for a long period.

[Bwaho]

danish and norwegian vikings generally sailed west (england, iceland etc) while swedish vikings generally sailed east into russia.

[Blarni]

An important point is the English chronicles of the time almost never refer to 'vikings' they refer to 'Danes' (or Norwegians when they showed up, but in England it was mostly Danes with the Norwegians settling and raiding more in Scotland and Ireland). Genetically the Norwegian imprint can be seen on Northern Britain, but the Danish is too similar to the English to be discernable.

[Arch-hereticK]

I have a theory why scandanavian females are so good looking. It's because when they raided Britain and Ireland they only took the best looking women, leaving the ugly ones. You can tell I'm right by visiting Britain or Ireland.

[Blarni]

I have a theory why scandanavian females are so good looking. It's because when they raided Britain and Ireland they only took the best looking women, leaving the ugly ones. You can tell I'm right by visiting Britain or Ireland.

They didn't just raid, they settled, leaving their peasants and craftsmen behind - that's why Britain has football hooligans and Scandinavia has Ikea.

[Mcgruder]

An important point is the English chronicles of the time never almost refer to 'vikings' they refer to 'Danes' (or Norwegians when they showed up, but in England it was mostly Danes with the Norwegians settling and raiding more in Scotland and Ireland). Genetically the Norwegian imprint can be seen on Northern Britain, but the Danish is too similar to the English to be discernable.

Absolutly right. Viking (or Vikingur in Icelandic), simply means Raider. Northmen - no matter if they were Danish, Norwegian, Swedish or Icelandic, were only refered to as Vikings when they where actually out raiding.

Ther imprint the danes made in england can still be seen in place names. Any place ending in either a 'Thorpe' (like Clethorpes or Scunthorpe) Or ending in 'by' (like Grimsby or Whitby) are undeniably danish settlements. Even some places that were always in Saxon control seem to have picked up nordic names. Selsey in Sussex means in Icelandic 'Seal Island' and the Island of Lundy off the coast of Devon / Cornwall means 'Puffin'. Funnily enough there are loads of puffins still on that Island.

[Nissedruva]

An important point is the English chronicles of the time never almost refer to 'vikings' they refer to 'Danes' (or Norwegians when they showed up, but in England it was mostly Danes with the Norwegians settling and raiding more in Scotland and Ireland). Genetically the Norwegian imprint can be seen on Northern Britain, but the Danish is too similar to the English to be discernable.

Well generally "Danes" became the common word for vikings in Britain or specifically in the Dane law regions. There were a quite considerable amount of Swedish (the modern term which includes geats) vikings going west wards including the British isle although i reckon most of them were in service of Danish or Norwegian rulers.

How do we know this if no mentions of Swedes can be found in English chronicles?

Well the answer is runestones which are plenty full in Sweden.

Here is a runestone in Småland that tells about Gunne, the brother of Vråe who "raised" the stone in his honor.
Gunne followed a man named Håkon Jarl to England and eventually died there.



A runestone (also in Småland) that tells about Gunnar and his brother Helge who traveled to England. Gunnar died outside of Bath and Helge buried him in a stone coffin.



And then off course Ulf i Borresta that made atleast three trips to England and who also was a rune writer.
On this stone found in Uppland the writing say:

"But Ulv has in England taken three tributes. It was the first, that Toste payed. Then payed Torkel. Then payed Knut."




The tribunes were most likely parts of Danegelds taken by the named persons.

All in all there are around 30 runestones known about Swedes going to England.

[Salem1]

All in all there are around 30 runestones known about Swedes going to England.

Like you said I think it's pretty much a case of Swedes in service of Danish and Norwegian rulers. Swedes for sure did go to England, but relative to the numbers of Danes and Norwegians that did, Swedes were rare.

[Nissedruva]

Like you said I think it's pretty much a case of Swedes in service of Danish and Norwegian rulers. Swedes for sure did go to England, but relative to the numbers of Danes and Norwegians that did, Swedes were rare.

Not as rare as people think.

Tbh i doubt a Brit or Frank could hear or see the difference between a Swedish or Danish viking in the service of a Danish warlord.