The Deluge

[Salem1]

What were the actual objectives of the powers fighting against Poland-Lithuania, what did each of them want to achieve? and why did they fail? how did they fail? why did Poland-Lithuania get out of this long and to put it rather mildly, devastating conflict without having ceded anything to Sweden? why did Ottoman empire sit tight while Poland-Lithuania, one of the main members of the holy league, was getting absolutely destroyed? and any other information you'd like to put out about this event. I'll suck it up like a tvättsvamp.

[motiv-8]

Well, I don't know if this played a huge role, but during those years the Ottoman Empire was undergoing turmoil as the Sultanate of Women / Harem era was giving way to the Koprulu era. Ottoman military activity was renewed after the transition, but not until the later 1660s IIRC.

[adamove]

NO one else was that stupid to fight with PAN ANDRZEJ KMICIC !

(chamie jeden)

[Salem1]

NO one else was that stupid to fight with PAN ANDRZEJ KMICIC !

(chamie jeden)

Someone has been watching too much of Potop

[clandestino]

You mean panas Kmitas?

[Radosław Sikora]

why did Ottoman empire sit tight while Poland-Lithuania, one of the main members of the holy league, was getting absolutely destroyed?

Depends what you mean by "the Deluge". Usually the term is uses only to the period of Swedish invasion (1655-1660). But sometimes it is uses to call the period of the most bloody wars 1648-1667.

As a matter of fact, Ottoman Empire was an informal ally of PLC in the period 1655-1660. Ottoman Empire wasn't interested in weakened Poland. Therefore the Sultan permited the Tartars to ally with the Poles and to fight off Polish enemies. It happened just after Swedish invasion of PLC.

[Salem1]

Depends what you mean by "the Deluge". Usually the term is uses only to the period of Swedish invasion (1655-1660). But sometimes it is uses to call the period of the most bloody wars 1648-1667.

As a matter of fact, Ottoman Empire was an informal ally of PLC in the period 1655-1660. Ottoman Empire wasn't interested in weakened Poland. Therefore the Sultan permited the Tartars to ally with the Poles and to fight off Polish enemies. It happened just after Swedish invasion of PLC.

I think it's quite bad to call it the Swedish deluge, because I think that Sweden would never have invaded if PLC wasn't busy dealing with other things. So when I refer to the Deluge, it's the entire series of events from the Khelmnytski uprising to the Treaty of Oliva. I don't consider the events between PLC and Russia after that as part of the Deluge.

A semi-GNW could probably have happened ~50 years earlier if Denmark, PLC and Russia had co-operated since both Denmark and Russia declared war on Sweden. But instead, Sweden gained territories from Denmark and PLC was left alive albeit ruined. Another option could be that PLC had to cede territory like Danzig, Courland etc. to the various anti-PLC factions, after which Charles would probably go on to expand Sweden further at the expense of Denmark and Russia again. I don't really believe that partitioning PLC was possible at that point, without the involvement of Russia.

[Radosław Sikora]

I think it's quite bad to call it the Swedish deluge, because I think that Sweden would never have invaded if PLC wasn't busy dealing with other things. So when I refer to the Deluge, it's the entire series of events from the Khelmnytski uprising to the Treaty of Oliva. I don't consider the events between PLC and Russia after that as part of the Deluge.

Ok, so we are talking about the period of 1648-1660.
Let's back to your question about Ottoman Empire. This period should be divided into 2 subperiods:
1. 1648-1654 These are years, when the Tartars (an armed hand of Ottoman Empire ) where allied with Cossacks and fought against Poland.
2. 1655-1660 These are years when the Tartars where Polish allies.

There was a simple reason of these Tatar alliances. The Tartars were interested in the balance of power in this area, where they held the balance. Holding the balance was a very profitable for Tatars.

A semi-GNW could probably have happened ~50 years earlier if Denmark, PLC and Russia had co-operated since both Denmark and Russia declared war on Sweden.

It couldn't have happened.
Poland, fighting Cossacks and Russians, wasn't interested in a new war (vs Sweden).
Russia, fighting Poland, wasn't interested in alliance with Poland .

I don't really believe that partitioning PLC was possible at that point, without the involvement of Russia.

Or maybe without breaking of Polish-Tatar alliance. IMO this alliance helped Poland more than anything else in the critical year 1655.