Christian says: "Mohammad was a warlord" Punishment: Arrested and Charged

[Tigran of Sasoun]

excerpts from the article:

"Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang are charged with breaching Section 5 of the Public Order Act – causing harassment, alarm or distress. If convicted, they face fines of £2,500 each and a criminal record.

The Muslim woman was staying at the Bounty House Hotel in Liverpool, which is run by the Vogelenzangs, when a conversation arose between the hoteliers and their guest about her faith.

It is understood that among the topics debated was whether Jesus was a minor prophet, as Islam teaches, or whether he was the Son of God, as Christianity teaches.

Among the things Mr Vogelenzang, 53, is alleged to have said is that Mohammad was a warlord. His wife, 54, is said to have stated that Muslim dress is a form of bondage for women."

Please place all quoted material in quote tags. -- VP

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...lim-guest.html

ONLY in the U.K



Edit: To clear it up. This is not about Islam in Europe. This is about how the UK handles integration of muslims. This thread is about how the United Kingdom is a laughable state and their pathetic attempts at "integration" showcase their grand failures at "integration".

When it comes to deterioration of freedom of speech to the authoritarian control in the name of integration and ease "sensitivities" no nation tops the list of idiotic laws like the U.K.

P.S I ESPECIALLY like the thread a couple of months back about the CCTV cameras installed in council houses, the 2000 of them and a further plan for 20,000 more families to be monitored.

Like I said, ONLY in the U.K

[Phillieas_Caesar]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Put the genie back in the bottle before this thread desovles into an Islamaphobic hate thread. I foresee line like "Muslims are taking over"

They commented a crime and deserve to pay for it. see Section 5 of the Public Order Act – causing harassment, alarm or distress. Break the rules face the consequences. Religion is not part of the offense and the only reason that it is here is that its a Muslim in the title and the Europeans love bashing Muslims.

[Tigran of Sasoun]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I know eh?

Put the genie back in the bottle before this thread desovles into an Islamaphobic hate thread. I foresee line like "Muslims are taking over"

I don't think you should jump to conclusions.

They commented a crime and deserve to pay for it.

ABSURD! What crime? Discussing historical facts that has overwhelming evidence that Mohammad was a Warlord?

see Section 5 of the Public Order Act – causing harassment, alarm or distress.

Thats some law alright

Break the rules face the consequences.

Too bad they did not break any laws

Religion is not part of the offense

Oh? Then what exact law did they break?

and the only reason that it is here is that its a Muslim in the title and the Europeans love bashing Muslims.

No I posted it because I think the political system in the U.K is laughable. I have a great disdain for it and UK in general because of what that country represents in this world.

As a Canadian citizen I do not carry around 20 dollar bills or loonies because I do not want to see any pictures of that hag from the dreaded country of England.

Mohammed obviously was a warlord, and a bandit chief. And people should be free to say or discuss that, and anything else without the thought police appearing.

An argument at a hotel leads to the Multicultural Stormtroopers to come knocking.

My exact thoughts. In NORMAL country it would not be a problem. In Canada I talk about religious and sensitive issues all the time, INCLUDING Muslims and I freely speak my mind.

I find it baffling that such a case exists where someone is arrest for doing so in a "democratic country" but this is not the first time I have read and heard of such ludicrous incidents that involve the United Kingdom.

Your "integration" experiment in the UK will fail because run it, while in a normal country, where I come from we do not get such stupid headline and we do not waste our tax payer money to arrest, charge and sentence someone THOUGHTS and HISTORICAL facts.

[nce_wht_guy]

As a Canadian citizen I do not carry around 20 dollar bills or loonies because I do not want to see any pictures of that hag from the dreaded country of England.

When you got citizenship in Canada didn't they make you swear allegiance to her majesty?

[Tigran of Sasoun]

When you got citizenship in Canada didn't they make you swear allegiance to her majesty? Uppity little colonial wad.

Give me liberty or give me dead

[Exarch]

why is warlord necessarily a slur?
it could be argued that alexander the great was a 'warlord' as well

and mohammed did conquer his rivals, he did win battles, and he did win over former rivals
why is this so bad?
it's no different to pope julian or even constantine

[Yosemite]

ABSURD! What crime? Discussing historical facts that has overwhelming evidence that Mohammad was a Warlord?

and a bandit chief.

that's debatable

[Caucasus]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Put the genie back in the bottle before this thread desovles into an Islamaphobic hate thread. I foresee line like "Muslims are taking over"

They commented a crime and deserve to pay for it. see Section 5 of the Public Order Act – causing harassment, alarm or distress. Break the rules face the consequences. Religion is not part of the offense and the only reason that it is here is that its a Muslim in the title and the Europeans love bashing Muslims.

The only post that deserves a rep here.

Anyways freedom of speech baby. Tbh i would have punched that douche bag.

[B5C]

Well that's because the British government letting the Muslims have their way and the British are very political correct.

NOVELTY pig calendars and toys have been banned from a council office ? in case they offend Muslim staff.

Workers in the benefits department at Dudley Council, West Midlands, were told to remove or cover up all pig-related items, including toys, porcelain figures, calendars and even a tissue box featuring Winnie the Pooh and Piglet.

Bosses acted after a Muslim complained about pig-shaped stress relievers delivered to the council in the run-up to the Islamic festival of Ramadan.

Muslims are barred from eating pork in the Koran and consider pigs unclean.

Councillor Mahbubur Rahman, a practising Muslim, backed the ban. He said: ?It?s a tolerance of people?s beliefs.?
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle102182.ece

[persianfan247]

Why won't it end?

[Simon Cashmere]

Mohammed obviously was a warlord, and a bandit chief. And people should be free to say or discuss that, and anything else without the thought police appearing.

An argument at a hotel leads to the Multicultural Stormtroopers to come knocking.

[Primvs Sextvs Loverlord]

Mohammed obviously was a warlord, and a bandit chief. And people should be free to say or discuss that, and anything else without the thought police appearing.

An argument at a hotel leads to the Multicultural Stormtroopers to come knocking.

Yeah, Mohammad the Warlord who fought:

Defensive Battles in which Muslims were attacked:
- The Battle of Badr
- The Battle of Uhud
- The Battle of the Trench/Khandaq

Bloodless 'battles':
- Conquest of Mecca

Offensive Battles:
- The Siege of Khyber
- Attacking Meccan Caravans


So undertaking two military operations makes you a warlord. I love to quote Edward Gibbon whenever these kids bring up this argument:

"The greatest crimes, the greatest sin of Mohammed in the eyes of Christian West is that he did not allow himself to be slaughtered, to be "crucified" by his enemies. He only defended himself, his family and his followers; and finally vanquished his enemies. Mohammed's success is the Christians' gall of disappointment… He did not believe in any vicarious sacrifices for the sins of others."


Here's what Gandhi said:

"I wanted to know the best of the life of one who holds today an undisputed sway over the hearts of millions of mankind.... I became more than ever convinced that it was not the sword that won a place for Islam in those days in the scheme of life. It was the rigid simplicity, the utter self-effacement of the Prophet the scrupulous regard for pledges, his intense devotion to his friends and followers, his intrepidity, his fearlessness, his absolute trust in God and in his own mission. These and not the sword carried everything before them and surmounted every obstacle. When I closed the second volume (of the Prophet's biography), I was sorry there was not more for me to read of that great life."


Take your hatred back to Stormfront.

[s.rwitt]

Yeah, Mohammad the Warlord who fought:

So undertaking two military operations makes you a warlord. I love to quote Edward Gibbon whenever these kids bring up this argument:.

Not to jump on the whole "Muslims are bastards" wagon or anything but come on here, let's be honest. He falls perfectly into the definition of a war lord.

A warlord is a person with power who has both military and civil[1] control over a subnational area due to armed forces loyal to the warlord and not to a central authority. The term can also mean one who espouses the ideal that war is necessary, and has the means and authority to engage in war. The word has a strong connotation that the person exercises far more power than his official title or rank (if any) legitimately permits him or her.

Under feudalism, in contrast, the local military leader may enjoy great autonomy and a personal army, but still derives legitimacy from formal fealty to a central authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warlord

[Request a new user name]

Mohammed obviously was a warlord, and a bandit chief. And people should be free to say or discuss that, and anything else without the thought police appearing.

An argument at a hotel leads to the Multicultural Stormtroopers to come knocking.

Weren't all conquerors the same?

Then again should I point out that Muhammad only turned to war after repeated attacks and assaults on him and his people. He gave his foes every chance to give up peacefully and never once resorted to wholesale slaughter and looting.

Compare that to Moses and Joshua who massacred entire populations and engaged in wholesale looting and rapine.

[mrcrusty]

Oh lord, I have nothing wrong with Muslims, or Islam in general, but it's pretty obvious that this is a massive epic fail.

Should we arrest everyone who calls Jesus a hippie?

How many people have joked about Priests being pedophiles? Yeah, let's all fine them too.



Though hopefully we'll learn more about the story, because there probably is more then meets the eye to this. I doubt that the UK is really that stuffed up.

[rusina]

How many people have joked about Priests being pedophiles?

And yet, you can't say that Muhammad was a pedophile.

[Copperknickers II]

My exact thoughts. In NORMAL country it would not be a problem. In Canada I talk about religious and sensitive issues all the time, INCLUDING Muslims and I freely speak my mind.

I find it baffling that such a case exists where someone is arrest for doing so in a "democratic country" but this is not the first time I have read and heard of such ludicrous incidents that involve the United Kingdom.

Your "integration" experiment in the UK will fail because run it, while in a normal country, where I come from we do not get such stupid headline and we do not waste our tax payer money to arrest, charge and sentence someone THOUGHTS and HISTORICAL facts.

I really hope you don't believe the tabloids my friend, this is not a regular occurence. And besides, they have not been found guilty of anything and they probably won't be, read the article, it is a sensationalist making a big thing out of nothing. In fact i expect if we were to hear what they actually said, in context, it was considerably more than calling Mohammed a warlord, they just haven't told us that they called all Muslims 'murdering swine who should go pack to Pakistan'. I hope that is not acceptable in Canada.

[Fiyenyaa]

I really hope you don't believe the tabloids my friend, this is not a regular occurence. And besides, they have not been found guilty of anything and they probably won't be, read the article, it is a sensationalist making a big thing out of nothing. In fact i expect if we were to hear what they actually said, in context, it was considerably more than calling Mohammed a warlord, they just haven't told us that they called all Muslims 'murdering swine who should go pack to Pakistan'. I hope that is not acceptable in Canada.

British tabloids are the reason that Britain is perceived to be some sort of PC lost cause.
Anyone remember when Christmas was banned in the UK? The red-tops made a big ing deal about it. Weirdly, the only time I ever heard of it was in said papers, and the reason was this; one town decided to rename the Christmas season 'winterval' or some such half-baked name, and it was withdrawn pretty much as soon as it was implemented because of unpopularity. The way it was reported, you'd have thought 1984 had become a reality.
Don't take these stories at face value. They are usually misrepresenting the facts at best, and outright lying at worst.

[Pious Agnost]

It's from the Telegraph.

Any other sources?

[Arto]

Sorry Brits, but your P.C. is becoming so pathetic that it even makes me laugh.