Ready to throw in the towel

[Ramashan]

After years of working on my mod and hammering out all the errors, I seem to be having the worse bought of modding CTDs I've ever experienced.

All the helpful validaters people have created here all tell me that my coding is error free. However, after having a very successful solution to a barracks error I was getting, I was able to play a 40 round campaign, I put my AOR back together and was able to play over 20 rounds, and then I added 1 character and moved a settlement from one faction to another, deleted the map.rmw and now the mod will not load at all.

Another issue is, that for some reason which is highly frustrating, I can't access the org with their handy guide to CTDs to even begin to figure out where the problem is coming from.

I have ; out all the characters in the DS except for leaders, I have ; all unit recruitment and extra building requirements in the EDB, I have removed all the buildings except government from the DS.

It just seems that as I find small coding issues that could possibly be the problem, the CTD gets worse and worse. It started with the game loading and crashing when I hit the turn button to now its not even loading. I've been reading through the EDB, DS, and Descr_names over and over and I am obviously missing something.

I think I just need some moral support after sitting in front of my computer for 4 hours without any success.

[MasterOfNone]

If it makes you feel any better I have, before now, sat at the computer for 3 weeks tracking down one bug and, in that period, not getting anything else with the mod done...

These things happen even to the best coders. Make it a matter of course to always delete map.rwm after changing anything remotely campaign related - or just make a .bat file to start the mod and have it delete map.rwm when executed!

If it's any consolation, it's a great feeling when you actually find the problem and squash it

[Killerbee]

Yea , i've had this too , though not as bad/important . I added image files in a folder (just random in-game shots from the game) , and edited a file in the same folder . When i played the game , it crashed during loading bar . Stangely enough , when i deleted the image files , the game crashed even before the loading bar. Like if the images are needed

And yes , it is idd lovely when after hours of tracking down errors etc. , it finally works

@ Rama : Try everything . Every little goddam thing . adding a space , or a tab , or even a comment . Just try everything . RTW can produce very weird bugs when it should run normally Just try every little thing , and pay attention to every little detail , like caps etc ..

[makanyane]

Another issue is, that for some reason which is highly frustrating, I can't access the org with their handy guide to CTDs to even begin to figure out where the problem is coming from.

There is a version of the modders guide to CTD's on org's wiki I put up a while ago:
http://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/inde...ide_to_CTD%27s
you might be able to get to that even if you can't see main forum, there is also a version around here somewhere but all of them unfortunately are at slightly different revisions.....


did you have a previously working version intact? I've been stuck at this sort of point a few times when trying to rationalise mod-folder contents.... and come up with some weirdo problems like the not having BI building card thing we discussed recently as apparently completely illogical solutions... occasionally going back to working version and feeding in changes as slowly as possible is only option to find bug

assuming you get past the loading stage, most likely 'random' crashes are due to revolt CTD, character names problems; or trait / ancillary trigger that has a problem, firing and hence causing crash (those at least are easy to isolate - delete all triggers whilst testing)

if CTD is at fixed time point (regardless of how campaign progresses) it's probably a historic event without correct text - or script problem that happens at turn x


other frustrating oddity - some apparently unrelated changes to data files, require you to delete map.rwm or you'll crash a few turns in..... fairly sure I've been through most variations on this now!!!


Moral support enclosed

[Salvor Hardin]

If it helps, my first version of 77BC had to be completely re-done due to a similar problem.

That said, I would suggest using some of the available tools created by people who deserve a lot of credit: the names validator, the Zeus tool and the traits/ancillaries validator.

Good luck!

[Aradan]

Go, go, Rama, you are the best!!!!111one

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This thread is for moral support, right?

[MasterOfNone]

If you do throw in the towel then remember to set the right angle and velocity - otherwise you'll get a CTD (you can use fs_fast_towel or fs_fast_wet_towel - the latter has greater lethality)

[florin80]

If you do throw in the towel then remember to set the right angle and velocity - otherwise you'll get a CTD (you can use fs_fast_towel or fs_fast_wet_towel - the latter has greater lethality)

British humor, right? Reminds me of Monty Python.

@Ramashan: if you have the mod build separate from the game folder and you`re actually adding stuff to the game folder as you go you may want to try adding the whole thing(mod) over a fresh, clean rtw install in case the old one got cluttered with stuff you might have forgotten about.

[Hannibal Smith]

and then I added 1 character and moved a settlement from one faction to another, deleted the map.rmw and now the mod will not load at all.

That makes me think that its something to do with the map files. Ive found that the TiME map editor program is quite good for checking errors in the map files. It may be worth a look

[Killerbee]

Oh , and double check the file names . so that you didn't save descr_strat as desc_strat for instance

[Kylan271]

Oh sheesh I couldn't find the correct console command for "move_character Meagan Fox,co-ordinates Ramashan"..darn hmm script error sent to "move_character Meagan Fox,co-ordinates Aradan"..huh????? dang...sorry I tried Bro...^_*

Screamed there,done that,but I harass poor Aradan for data and look through tutorials somehow(gibberish to a newbie...)??? My main prob is trying to fix Dath Divus's TE extreme..crash basically every 1st turn..and no error message. He left,but did not do a change log..so hard to pin down.

RedFox has new Zeus tool,it may help find some things????

Keep a recorded Change Log so you can backtrack. And mutiple save files dated..I find this helps,stored on disc or usb card-otherwise computer crash like Lusted then bye bye baby.

I am no techno wiz so not sure on files to help..but you have my support,and yeah the otherhalf would be proud of yah!!!! ^_* Go out for coffee with her and relax for a bit.

[Spartan 666]

You have my simpathy Ramashan, I had to dump my copy of Roma Surrectum with more than two years of personal changes (there was little of the original RS left). From one day to the following, it decided not to work anymore. I spent hours checking the most important .txt files with no success, then with enourmous grief I dumped the whole RTW folder.

And recently, working on Diadochi, it seems an installation of the mod can handle a limited amount of changes to the campaign files. After some changes, it doesn't work anymore, I backup the modified files, reinstall the mod, copy\paste the edited files and then it works...

Modding is a cabal, but you surely know it more than I do. Good luck in hunting down the errors of the CTDs.

[Ramashan]

thanks you everyone for your support and suggestions. I'm sure as modders we've all hit those walls where you wonder why the heck your spending all this time and frustration on solving puzzle after puzzle and problem after problem and ask yourself, 'Is it worth it.'

Well, all your kind words are the answer to that. We not only do this for ourselves (which is important or we shouldn't be doing it at all) but hopefully so that others may enjoy the fruits of our hard work and lonely toil.

So, I stepped away for a bit and finally got the energy and gumpshon to rebuild the mod folder from scratch. Turns out there were a lot of little problems in the descr_strat file which weren't giving me error messages because of the CTD. So, I fixed all those, moved on to getting all the new names in, since I believe that's where some of my problems stem from, and then I'll move onto units and buildings, leaving all the art for last.

Again, thanks everyone, you guys make me realize that I am not alone and many others have been in the same shoes I am currently in. Guess that's why I enjoy hanging around in this community.

[Ramashan]

OK, now that I'm back, I'm also back to encountering seemingly stumper problems.

I'm trying to build a family tree, and I keep getting the showme_err "Can't find spouse 'huiyo'"

Here is the coding'

character_record        Cuaa,    female, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 80, dead, never_a_leader
character_record        Nooy,    female, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 58, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Huiyo,    female, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 36, alive, never_a_leader
character_record        Sayacu,    female, command 0, influence 0, management 0, subterfuge 0, age 30, alive, never_a_leader

relative    Zaachila Yoo,    Cuaa,    Zaachila-chupa Yoo,    end
relative    Zaachila-chupa Yoo,    Nooy,    Huiyo,    Zaachila-chonna Yoo,    end
relative    Zaachila-chonna Yoo,    Sayacu,    end
relative    Chicome Cuta,    Huiyo,    end

Can anyone see something that I am over looking. If I remaove the Chicome Cuta relative line, the game loads fine with Huiyo in the proper place in the family tree. But, once I try to marry her to Chicome Cuta, the game says it "Can't find spouse, huiyo"

NVM: Added the surname Yoo to all of Huiyo's names and it loaded fine. Seems you do need to give a surname to the woman.

[Squid]

Huiyo needs to have the surname Yoo if you want her married to someone outside the family.

[Ramashan]

Yup, ended up finding that out, thanks Squid. I didn't see that up front in the tutorials, so I was unsure. See, these are the things that I confuse myself about. So, thanks for helping.

[Spartan 666]

That's a problem I never remember of, but everytime you want to marry a woman of the family tree to a man who "comes from outside", the woman MUST HAVE THE SURNAME. That could seem a little and forgettable thing, but it isn't at all.

Glad to see you managed to get your mod back working! You said there were lots of little errors in descr_strat.txt, what was wrong?

[Ramashan]

Glad to see you managed to get your mod back working! You said there were lots of little errors in descr_strat.txt, what was wrong?

Thanks Spartan 666

As for what was wrong, it was really a lot of sloppy coding and assumptions. The errors were mostly that 'villages may not have buildings' , 'settlements must have core-build type one level below their current level' , 'settlement population too high' (this was mostly for villages since I was down grading many towns, I can't remember the max at the moment for a village but I think its either 1400 or 1600, so I put them all at 400 :/) I think I also had some units in places they shouldn't have been (went through with show_cursor stat and fixed this) I think some of the family relationships weren't working, ie women needing last names. The original CTD probably stemmed from the names.

Also, another thing I think the problem stemmed from is that sometimes names look like their all fine in the descr_names, descr_names_lookup and names files, but the game still spits them back. So, I recoded all the names and it seems to be working fine now.

So, I spent 7 hours yesterday (took the day off from work) and coded the descr_strat with all the names without using any Inca units or EDB, and got it working flawlessly for 40 turns. Then I added back the units and ran a campaign for 20 turns doing all sorts of battles, then I added back our EDB and ran another 20 turn test. And then put back all our art files. But, now i need to put back the recruitment and AOR stuff and play a full campaign. If, I'm lucky, I should be able to play all four factions over 40 turns by this weekend.

So, thanks for the recommendation to restart the mod folder from whoever gave it.

[MasterOfNone]

Good job, Ramashan. Good coding is such an important (and large) element of a good mod

[Spartan 666]

Aren't those errors that should be spotted by the show_err? Didn't it find them?