This is what they teach in american public schools

[Romanman]

This is straight from my US government class, a class in which i shake my head in dissapointment. Everyother class seems to be fine in my school system except for the history and government departments all of which i continue to find horrible mistakes. Government class is pretty much the history of the government and how it works.

1. My teacher pronounces Descartes, like Desk-art-ties, instead of De- cart.

2. these apparently are the 6 RULES OF HISTORY ( i disagree with most) please tell me your opinions on these. my criticisms will be in italics
6 RULES OF HISTORY according to a virginia public school
1. Good always survives.
- I think good is subjective
2. There are Universal laws
- no stealing, murder. these are not UNIVERSAL they are common because people have enough common sense to know you need them for a free society.
3. Civilization make progress
-progressing how? maybe technology wise but howdo we know in ten years we won't be in the stoneage again (nuclear war?) are we progressing towards freedom, happiness? many reasonable people would disagree so how can you make this a rule
4. Military conquests are not permanent.
- i agree with this
5. Glorious destiny of life.
- aparently everyone has a destiny, so what about the thousands who commit suicide every year? what is this rule supposed to mean?
6. Man will be free.
- as opposed to the thousands of oppressive dictators, kings, and regimes in history and modern time
how many places in the world are actually "free" today.


if your going to send a kid to public school teach history to him yourself. hopefully you guys liked this thread if you did i'd encourage you to find an old thread of mine called "why line up"

[Tiberius Tosi]

Pronunciation of names doesn't matter. I mispronounce plenty of French and Latin names even when I know they are wrong because they sound better to me.

1. True, there is always opposition to oppression
2. True, every culture has them
3. True, it betters the life of the individual
4. True, needs no explanation
5. True, each person contributes to a society, no matter how insignificant. Those who commit suicide for reasons bring awareness to the problems which drove them to such actions.
6. True, there tends to be a in history a general progression towards freedom. Also, freedom can include freedom of though, which no one can ever take away. No matter how oppressed, people still will have freedom in certain degrees.

[Copperknickers II]

Pronunciation of names doesn't matter. I mispronounce plenty of French and Latin names even when I know they are wrong because they sound better to me.

What? You deliberately mispronounce them even when you don't know what the correct pronunciation is? That is astonishing. It is my belief that only the masters of a langauge are permitted to misuse it so i won't pursue that...

but at the OP - that is absolutely shocking, history classes being turned into propaganda brainwashing sessions? I become more and more convinved every day that the US does not belong in the Western World, or at least its government doesn't.

British history classes are not devoid of errors, but i am doing the Russian Revolution currently and there is not a single undertone of 'Communism is Bad' in the resources or course aims. It is left completely subjective.

I honestly despair sometimes, that there are children within spitting distance of Harvard and Yale who are taught the bible in biology and now who will leave school thinking that they are right and everyone else is wrong not just in religion but in politics and history too.

1. Good always survives.

Plainly not true, though overall there will always be people who have a higher sense of morality than others and nothing you can do can stop that, though i don't think that is what is meant.

2. There are Universal laws

Not really, but murder and inbreeding are more or less universally frowned upon.

3. Civilization makes progress

Pretty much true, in fact i have no qualms about that one. The only people who don't make progress are tribes, who are of course not civilisations.

4. Military conquests are not permanent.

To extend, states are never permanant, nations are never permanant, empires definitely aren't,

5. Glorious destiny of life.

Don't really understand this one, but it plainly isn't true. I suppose that one is just so noone thinks they are worthless scum who deserved to be drowned at birth, because there are certainly enough of those people.

6. Man will be free.

No.

[Father Jack]

British history classes are not devoid of errors, but i am doing the Russian Revolution currently and there is not a single undertone of 'Communism is Bad' in the resources or course aims. It is left completely subjective.

Primary school history was factually bad but when you are 8 its not big deal. As for post GCSE history I would generally say the standards here are excellent. I have found all of my history courses to be subjective with no hidden agendas etc. I cannot comment on how history is taught in the US, I would assume it varies on the school, what courses you do....blah blah blah.

Pronunciation of names doesn't matter. I mispronounce plenty of French and Latin names even when I know they are wrong because they sound better to me.

It does matter, if you dont you end up sounding like an unsophisticated\uneducated twit

[Time Commander Bob]

Sounds more like the six rules of fairytales to be honest.

1. Good always survives.

This is complete rubbish. Disregarding the whole meta-ethical question of "what is good", if we make the presumption that good = long life expectancy and high standards of living for all humans, then this is often untrue. So many events happened that were not by this definition good: Hitler winning the 1933 Reichstag election; the fact that only one of the original seven wonders of the ancient world still exists (due to various disasters); the First World War (completely horrible waste of life, especially considering that millions died only for another war to be fought just 20 years later); the death/assassination of various great people, eg Lincoln, Gandhi, Socrates. I could go on for quite some time on this point, but I think you get the general idea. Plus ultimately all humans will probably be dead eventually at one point meaning that our definition of "good" will no longer exist.

2. There are Universal laws

There are universal physical laws, but there is no evidence or any need for universal moral laws. That said, most people do want what is "good" but disagree how to get to it. For example, Hitler thought that exterminating the Jews was a "good" thing to do, but I should hope almost all people today disagree.

3. Civilization make progress

The only times "civilization" makes "progress" is in the game Civilization and the world is not like that unfortunately. Was the transition into the so-called Dark Ages in Europe "progress"? Perhaps if you set certain criteria it was regression, or if you set other criteria for which progress to be judged it was progression. It all depends on how one defines such an artificial term as "progress". I could say that progress is merely defined by civilizations age, in which case it is "progressing" quite well and will continue to do so until it ends.

4. Military conquests are not permanent.

What is permanent? Lasting forever? Then there is very little than I can think of that is permanent other than the physical laws that govern the universe (and even then I can't be too sure). This is the only "rule" that has some essence of truth about it.

5. Glorious destiny of life.

What the hell is the destiny of a child who dies of an illness a few months after birth? Hardly glorious.

6. Man will be free.

Disregarding the problem of whether we actually have free will or not, this point doesn't have to be true. Hypothetically in the future that all humans are enslaved by one dictator and when they try to rise up he kills them all with nukes, man never being free.

These six rules of history have no place in actual reality and are only good at predicting what will happen in a story for children under the age of 5.

[SigniferOne]

Sounds more like the six rules of fairytales to be honest.


This is complete rubbish. Disregarding the whole meta-ethical question of "what is good", if we make the presumption that good = long life expectancy and high standards of living for all humans

What makes you think that this is what was meant by good?

Disregarding the problem of whether we actually have free will or not, this point doesn't have to be true. Hypothetically in the future that all humans are enslaved by one dictator and when they try to rise up he kills them all with nukes, man never being free.

This is complete nonsense.

[Romanman]

its weird you would think it would be just one teacher thats bad, but every teacher (including student teachers) i've had in highschool is bad. They tend to reiterate old misconceptions or bias.
The one i'm talking about in this thread is a democrat, very patriotic, and supportive of our armed forces. for somekids he sounds very unbiased.
(i've had poor republican teachers too)

heres an example so that you know its not just one teacher. my teacher last year (world civ 2) said verbatim "Now the colonists figured out that if they could let the sick people role around in a blanket then give the blanket to the indians". hes talking about colonial expansion in the 1700s when people were still bleeding each other.

I believe someone said they didn't care about mispronunciation. will whu keers abat prununsiatin.jk.
it seems like your disagreeing with me just to disagree. i don't care about people who mispronounce because of an accent, but if you speak in a standard american accent and mispronounce a famous political philosopher and your THE TEACHER its your responsiblility for teaching them the WRONG information. he should know better after 40 years.

btw good is subjective and its good to see that many american schools aren't this bad.

[Desperado †]

The one i'm talking about in this thread is a democrat, very patriotic, and supportive of our armed forces. for somekids he sounds very unbiased.

The fact you know this further highlights how crap he is. A teacher pre-college (especially a history one) should never tell a child their political ideas.

[Desperado †]

Primary school history was factually bad but when you are 8 its not big deal. As for post GCSE history I would generally say the standards here are excellent. I have found all of my history courses to be subjective with no hidden agendas etc. I cannot comment on how history is taught in the US, I would assume it varies on the school, what courses you do....blah blah blah.

From my own experience I would say that I found the British education of history to be subjective and non-biased enough, and the often Euro-centric teachings and a few conventional mistakes ('communism is the opposite of nationalism') csn easily be pardoned.

But I think that our lack of a basic, broad teaching of the history of Britain is disappointing.

There should be a time line module at the start of each year pre-GCSE. How many kids, after going through compulspory history in Britain know when, or about when, or if at all the Romans invaded Britain? When they left? When King Charles was beheaded?

My class just had *BAM* Norman Conquest, *BAM* Tudors, *BAM* Industrial revolution, *BAM* World War I & II.

[Tiberius Tosi]

From my own experience I would say that I found the British education of history to be subjective and non-biased enough, and the often Euro-centric teachings and a few conventional mistakes ('communism is the opposite of nationalism') csn easily be pardoned.

But I think that our lack of a basic, broad teaching of the history of Britain is disappointing.

There should be a time line module at the start of each year pre-GCSE. How many kids, after going through compulspory history in Britain know when, or about when, or if at all the Romans invaded Britain? When they left? When King Charles was beheaded?

My class just had *BAM* Norman Conquest, *BAM* Tudors, *BAM* Industrial revolution, *BAM* World War I & II.

This style of teaching history is outdated by about 50 years. It is not the when that matters in history, it is the what, who, how, and effect of the event. What does it matter if I know when Rome invaded Britain, it is far more important for one to know why it happened and what effect it had. Your style of teaching history is even worse than the one currently being used.

[vizi]

You should try cleaning up the spelling and grammar.

And there are universal laws in government and ethics.

Edit: I can agree with that Tiberius.

[Dr. Croccer]

1. Good always survives.
- I think good is subjective

There is no clear definition between ''good'' or ''bad''. During the Cold War both the US and USSR supported regimes which were not ''democratic'' or ''socialist'', but corrupt autocracies which stole from the general populance.

2. There are Universal laws
- no stealing, murder. these are not UNIVERSAL they are common because people have enough common sense to know you need them for a free society.

''Universal laws'' ?

3. Civilization make progress
-progressing how? maybe technology wise but howdo we know in ten years we won't be in the stoneage again (nuclear war?) are we progressing towards freedom, happiness? many reasonable people would disagree so how can you make this a rule

Completely ignoring the Middle Ages and most of Asia and Africa.

4. Military conquests are not permanent.
- i agree with this

Some are, some aren't. What is now France was conquered by the Franks in 400-800 AD, and has remained in the hands of the French since then, with brief intervals.

5. Glorious destiny of life.
- aparently everyone has a destiny, so what about the thousands who commit suicide every year? what is this rule supposed to mean?
6. Man will be free.
- as opposed to the thousands of oppressive dictators, kings, and regimes in history and modern time
how many places in the world are actually "free" today.

These two are just ridiculous.

Is dis fo' real?

[Confederate Jeb]

You must be kidding me. I've never seen them teach any of this ever. They're more liberal in their teaching.

Yes, public schools are bad at teaching history, but this example isn't that bad.

[trance]

Oh the irony. A U.S school saying that "military conquest are not permanent", the very fact that you're actually living in a country named United States of America proves that wrong, or wait, the native peoples of the americas all joined with the european settlers upon arrival and danced around a brazen fire shouting "let's invent the USA".

[Psychonaut]

Maybe your history teacher just sucks? I live in the US and my World Civilization (history basically) teacher is really good at teaching. In fact, he disagrees with your first rule, too. He said that good is subjective, and that while we (the U.S.) consider terrorists to be "bad", they are considered heroes/freedom fighter in other parts of the world.

I've never been taught these rules btw.


For some reason I don't like the way my post is written, yet I don't know how to really write it in a better way. Oh well.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Indeed, neither I did. But it is unsurprising that basic education seems to be propagating historical misconceptions nevertheless.

[TRSjarmen]

I think US schools are good at teaching US history. I got plenty of that in school, but I hated how they never taught about anything else. Everything I knew about history other then the US in high school I had to teach myself.

[Desperado †]

History has no 'rules' save that it is what was.

The subject of history is finding out what was to the best we can - not making up a set of rules to what was. Your teacher could propose that such statements were facts, but arrogantly without doing so without reasonable, reliable, foolproof evidence proves her worthlessness as a historian and stating them at the beginning of the course (or so I presume) and thus stifling pupils' creative thinking and ingenuity proves her worthlessness as a teacher.

[Sun Devil]

Where did you guys pull these rules out of, and why are you guys making rules for anything in history class. Also, I hope this is not an AP class (unless your teacher really sucks). The regular classes in my school suck, but AP are really good and would never let this crap out.

[Dr. Oza]

americna schools change from district to district, my own is fine, for example, but that one isnt...