USA: Should it be in NTW?

Do you think The US should be in the game.They did play some part in that era.The War of 1812 was an important war.It was America's first chance to prove it was a new nation in the world.I think it could be added to make a British campaing more challenging.In empire,peopel always say how easy Playing GB is.A war on two fronts,that would be a fun thing to play.

Don't think that the American theater will be included in N:TW

I'd rather they focus on Europe, but if they can add an American theatre without it impacting on the quality of the European one I don't see any reason why not.

Originally Posted by Bose

The War of 1812 was an important war.

No it wasnt.

Originally Posted by Goatsie

No it wasnt.

yes it was

Originally Posted by Companie Franche de la Marine

yes it was

No it wasn't. The American war of 1812 was near completely irrelevant on the grand stage.

No disrespect to our American cousins, but America should bear no relation to NTW, it should purely be European & North African as that was the sphere of influence covered by the Napoleonic wars

Originally Posted by Goatsie

No it wasnt.

it was for The US.it helped establish an early american identity.

Originally Posted by Bose

it was for The US.it helped establish an early american identity.

Funny. Canadians say it helped forge a common Canadian identity (even though the Brits helped us tremendously)

Originally Posted by Bose

it was for The US.it helped establish an early american identity.

It established an early Canadian identity. I mean, at least we won.

I think the US should stay in the US, because this game is mainly focused on Napoleon's Campaigns and all the nations which were involved, though I had nothing against mercenary units or volunteers, irregulars or adventurars who are fighting as volunteers for any side.

I also believe that there will be an American Civil War addon. It is quite possible and would also be logical.

Originally Posted by Bose

it was for The US.it helped establish an early american identity.

More importantly it rallied the nation against a common, detested enemy in Great Britain in a manner not previously experienced. The early nineteenth century United States was predominantly Francophile, a sentiment inspired by Jeffersonian ideals and practices and Napoleonic fervor. However, politically the war accomplished nothing besides exposing the alarming weaknesses and ineptness of the United States Army; but also affirmed the fledgling United States Navy as a formidable opponent capable of protecting its national waters and overseas commerce. An important war? No. A necessary one considering the circumstances of the era? Somewhat yes.

Originally Posted by Goatsie

No it wasnt.

Yes it was!

i think it's better if they make all/most factions on Europe playable, rather than seeing the US. the US' time to shine will be the era after this. so Americans..you just have to be patient.

Originally Posted by Goatsie

No it wasnt.

As a yank, I have to agree with this. It was a half hearted attempt to save face on the world stage. No seriouse challenge was made to hold territory before or after the Battle of New Orleans, it was basically a tantrum and the undermanned and undergunned US navy along with well payed and common enemy privateers; we learned that one from the Brits, played the largest role in more of a gorilla warfair raiding sort of way.

If we are represented in NTW, it should be as a NP faction with simi scripted naval raids on shipping and trade lanes more like the pirates are in ETW.

The most intresting part of us military history wont be for another 47 years after the Napoleons exile on Elba and they wont include the US Civil War when they can sell it after NTW as a separate game.

The reason that CA should leave the US out of NTW as a player faction is...

The biggest reason we didnt get more involved in Eropean politics was because of the complex political situation in the new states at that time. Even then, before abolition, there was a great deal of misstrust north and south. The States were very unsolidified as a Nation.

The south still had many economic, emotional and social ties to England more so than the north. The south was much, a reluctant partner in the revolution to begin with and was generally the last part of the colonies to come around to separation and independence.

It would be too simple to say "we beat the Brits, now were all one happy family. Internal politics and strife kept the US from exerting much influence in Europe during this time. Its not surprising that after the secession, the Confederate States sought intervention and aid from England.

I dont see how any TW game can hope to do justice to reinacting the period from 1789 to 1860 when it comes to the political realities in the US and its relitive inability to project power globally. Any attempt would need to be more focused on the economic and political aspects of early 19th century America then what the TW series tends to support.

I would add America but only as a startup politcal event - US revolution inspires the French to massacre their aristocracy, and set up a republic which allows the likes of Napoleon to emerge!

R

Originally Posted by VVILHELM DUX

The reason that CA should leave the US out of NTW as a player faction is...

The biggest reason we didnt get more involved in Eropean politics was because of the complex political situation in the new states at that time. Even then, before abolition, there was a great deal of misstrust north and south. The States were very unsolidified as a Nation.

The south still had many economic, emotional and social ties to England more so than the north. The south was much, a reluctant partner in the revolution to begin with and was generally the last part of the colonies to come around to separation and independence.

It would be too simple to say "we beat the Brits, now were all one happy family. Internal politics and strife kept the US from exerting much influence in Europe during this time. Its not surprising that after the secession, the Confederate States sought intervention and aid from England.

I dont see how any TW game can hope to do justice to reinacting the period from 1789 to 1860 when it comes to the political realities in the US and its relitive inability to project power globally. Any attempt would need to be more focused on the economic and political aspects of early 19th century America then what the TW series tends to support.

I'm not sure where Americans get the idea they won this war, The Treaty of Ghent hardly changed the status quo,with slight advantage to GB if anything.Historically it was of little importance to GB and most British have never heard of it.Perhaps to Americans the battle of New Orleans is of importance although I doubt they realise the British won the last battle at Ft Bowyer.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

British capture of Ft Bowyer

Originally Posted by Jihada

I'm not sure where Americans get the idea they won this war, The Treaty of Ghent hardly changed the status quo,with slight advantage to GB if anything.Historically it was of little importance to GB and most British have never heard of it.Perhaps to Americans the battle of New Orleans is of importance although I doubt they realise the British won the last battle at Ft Bowyer.

It was a victory in that it showed that the US would not be bullied around and could hold its own. Foreign intervention in America was less direct or intense after the War of 1812, as they realized that the US could and would fight if it needed to. Militarily and politically, it was a stalemate for both sides.

Originally Posted by Jihada

I'm not sure where Americans get the idea they won this war, The Treaty of Ghent hardly changed the status quo,with slight advantage to GB if anything.Historically it was of little importance to GB and most British have never heard of it.Perhaps to Americans the battle of New Orleans is of importance although I doubt they realise the British won the last battle at Ft Bowyer.

Hmm... maybe because the Battle of New Orleans was a real battle, and the "Battle" of Ft. Bowyer was a small British landing force of 1400 defeating a tiny 370-man fort garrison? Emphasizing this skirmish is along the lines of your earlier characterization of the Battle of North Point as some sort of validation of British Army superiority.



Re: winning - Every reputable history of the War of 1812 logs it as "inconclusive", but if there was a winner, it was the United States. The Treaty of Ghent, among other things (ie, getting rid of British forts in the American north-central area) established the United States' rights to trade w/o interference from Britain.

Originally Posted by Tiberius Tosi

It was a victory in that it showed that the US would not be bullied around and could hold its own. Foreign intervention in America was less direct or intense after the War of 1812, as they realized that the US could and would fight if it needed to. Militarily and politically, it was a stalemate for both sides.

That is correct. And a British general after the war (1818) told his government, "If we go to war with the United States again, we will lose." (Elting)

Originally Posted by Jihada

I'm not sure where Americans get the idea they won this war, The Treaty of Ghent hardly changed the status quo,with slight advantage to GB if anything.Historically it was of little importance to GB and most British have never heard of it.Perhaps to Americans the battle of New Orleans is of importance although I doubt they realise the British won the last battle at Ft Bowyer.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

British capture of Ft Bowyer

Which is exactly the point I was making. 1812 was inconsequential to the Napolianic wars. Theres no reason to include it as a player faction in NTW. If they do, it will only be to drive up US sales of the title.

Originally Posted by TrevorMcPoonage

I get the feeling americans like playing USA, and if it makes the game sell more over there then they may aswell add it to keep them happy. All i request is that while under the control of the AI the USA follows a rather historical role of doing jack all . If a human player takes over USA then they can conquer the world as they chose. I just dont want a game with the AI USA getting involved in the napoeleonic wars as standard (because historically they were not involved).

This one likes playing France, Prussia and Russia.