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  1. #1
    Flavius Nevitta's Avatar Civitate
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    Default urgent Classic Greek help

    Hello!

    I have a brief question:

    There are different spellings in ancient greek for the name of the Goddess Athena in different dialects a.s.o.

    Wiki for example gives the following examples:

    Athena (also called Athene, Attic: Ἀθηνᾶ, Athēnâ or Ἀθηναία, Athēnaía, Epic: Ἀθηναίη, Athēnaíē, Ionic: Ἀθήνη, Athḗnē, Doric: Ἀθάνα, Athána)

    Which one would be the most common use (in ancient times, not modern)?

    Athena or Athene?

    What about versions like Athenaia?

    what exactly does the name Athenais mean?

    (PS: Could someone also write it down in capital letters as I don'T have greek script)

    Thank you
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    Akrotatos's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    I think the most common would be Athena

    ΑΘΗΝΑ

    Athinaia is not a version of the name but it means Athenian (female) like Athenaios means Athenian (male)

    Athinais I have not heard ever but Athenai (ΑΘΗΝΑΙ) is plural for the city of Athens, the ancients used plural for cities in some circumstances, something that survived until it disappeared a few decades ago.

    That's my take but ask others too, it's been years since I studied ancient Greek at school.
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  3. #3
    Flavius Nevitta's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    Thank you!

    Any more help? It's very important and I'd be very greatful for any help.

    I have another question:

    In this chart:



    eta is shown as Ionian and Modern. the others call it heta pronounced as "h" as they say. what's the difference? Would this influence the spelling of "Athena"?
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavius Nevitta View Post
    Athena (also called Athene, Attic: Ἀθηνᾶ, Athēnâ or Ἀθηναία, Athēnaía, Epic: Ἀθηναίη, Athēnaíē, Ionic: Ἀθήνη, Athḗnē, Doric: Ἀθάνα, Athána)

    Which one would be the most common use (in ancient times, not modern)?
    On the contrary, I think Athene, Ionic, would be the more common, even iirc in Athens.

    what exactly does the name Athenais mean?
    It means literally, Athens The name of the city. Athena or Athene was the name of the goddess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flavius Nevitta View Post
    eta is shown as Ionian and Modern. the others call it heta pronounced as "h" as they say. what's the difference? Would this influence the spelling of "Athena"?
    I'm not sure I understand your question, but the "Heta" pronounciation refers to the fact that if this letter is the first one of a word, it is normally not even visible. The way it would then be marked is with an aspirant, a reversed comma, above the next letter. Thus Homer would not be spelled Homeros, But Omeros with an inversed comma above the O, indicating the "h" aspirant needed to pronounce it.
    Last edited by SigniferOne; September 13, 2009 at 08:52 PM.


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  5. #5
    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    Quote Originally Posted by SigniferOne View Post
    It means literally, Athens The name of the city. Athena or Athene was the name of the goddess.
    Depends on how "Athenais" is written: if it's Ἀθῆναις, then yes, it's the dative of Athens (in plural). If it's Ἀθηναΐς, then it litterally means "daughter of Athens (or of Athena)", in the same way that Ἀθηναΐδης would mean "son of Athens" ( that's what the ending -ίδης / -ίς means in names, "son/daughter of-", in the Ionic dialect. In Doric it would be Ἀθηναΐδας).

    And I agree with Ummon, Ἀθηνᾶ (Athēnâ) is the most common name for the goddess.
    Last edited by Ellin Athinaios; September 15, 2009 at 01:03 PM.

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    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    Quote Originally Posted by Ellin Athinaios View Post
    Depends on how "Athenais" is written: if it's Ἀθῆναις, then yes, it's the accusative of Athens (in plural). If it's Ἀθηναΐς, then it litterally means "daughter of Athens (or of Athena)", in the same way that Ἀθηναΐδης would mean "son of Athens" ( that's what the ending -ίδης / -ίς means in names, "son/daughter of-", in the Ionic dialect. In Doric it would be Ἀθηναΐδας).

    And I agree with Ummon, Ἀθηνᾶ (Athēnâ) is the most common name for the goddess.
    You mean dative.

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    Ellin Athinaios's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    You mean dative.
    Oops, yeah I meant dative.

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    conon394's Avatar hoi polloi
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    This link is too pg 139 in Walter Burkert's "Greek Religion"

    http://books.google.com/books?id=sxu...athens&f=false

    The first paragraph on Athena has a quick snapshot of the name forms
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    Flavius Nevitta's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    Thank you!

    Does anyone know why the reverse of Athenian tetradrachms shows ΑΘE instead of ΑΘΗ?
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    Starlightman's Avatar Calling Card
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    the inscr. or occasionally (but not on the earliest specimens) , and an olive-spray in the corner of the incuse square.

    It is noticeable that on the latter specimens the incuse square is sharper and deeper than on the earlier ones, and their fabric suggests the probability of their having been struck at Eretria. (see Earle Fox, in Corolla Num., p. 44)

    In style the coins of the early Athenian issues range from the most primitive to the most refined archaic. Among them are the oldest and rudest examples of a human head on any ancient coins (with the possible exception of some small electrum coins of Ionia, see Archaïc Artemisia of Ephesus, p. 92, Pl. II. 75), and I take these to be quite the earliest Greek coins which were struck with both obv. and rev. types, The issues are very numerous, and there is reason to suppose that they extended over a long series of years, probably from the earlier half of the sixth century at least down to the time of Hippias, those of finer execution belonging to the later times of the Pisistratidae, when their money-chests were frequently replenished from their recently developed mining works at Laurium, and in their newly acquired possessions in the Strymon district. Cf. Herod. i. 64 πειθομενων δε των Αθηναιων ουτω δη Πεισιστρατος το τριτον σχων Αθηνας εππιζωσε την τυραννιδα (B.C. 533), επικουποισι τε πολλοισι, και χρηματων συνοδοισι, των μεν αυτοθεν, των δε απο Στρυμονος ποταμου συνιοντων.

    A highly probable date for the inauguration of the Athena-head rev. Owl series is the occasion of the first celebration on a grand scale of the great Festival of the Panathenaic Games, in the summer of B.C. 566, which was attended by a vast concourse of strangers from all parts of the Hellenic world. Then, and at every subsequent quadrennial celebration of the Panathenaea, a large supply of current coin would naturally be in request.



    http://www.snible.org/coins/hn/attica.html

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    It's relevent if you argue the Elgin Marbles should be returned to Athens because they were "stolen", because the Athenians themselves stole the money to produce them.

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  11. #11
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Re: urgent Classic Greek help

    Good thread for starters.

    Ἀθηνᾶ (nom.) is the correct lectio for the name. Attic passed into Κοινή.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek

    Koine Greek (Greek: Ελληνιστική Κοινή[1] IPA: [kɔɪnɛ̝^], Mod.Gk. IPA: [kʲiˈni e̞liniˈkʲi], "common Greek", or ἡ κοινὴ διάλεκτος, Mod.Gk. [i kʲiˈni ðiˈale̞kto̞s], "the common dialect") is the popular form of Greek which emerged in post-Classical antiquity (c.300 BC – AD 300). Other names are Alexandrian, Hellenistic, Patristic, Common, Biblical or New Testament Greek. Original names were koine, Hellenic, Alexandrian and Macedonian (Macedonic);[2][3] all on the contrast to Attic dialect. Koine was the first common supra-regional dialect in Greece and came to serve as a lingua franca for the eastern Mediterranean and ancient Near East throughout the Roman period. It was also the original language of the New Testament of the Christian Bible and of the Septuagint (the greek translation of the Old Testament).[4] Koine is the main ancestor of modern Greek.

    ...

    The linguistic roots of the Common Greek dialect had been unclear since ancient times. During the Hellenistic age, most scholars thought of Koine as the result of the mixture of the four main Ancient Greek dialects, "ἡ ἐκ τῶν τεττάρων συνεστῶσα" (the composition of the Four). This view was supported in the early 20th century by Austrian linguist P. Kretschmer in his book "Die Entstehung der Koine" (1901), while the German scholar Wilamowitz and the French linguist Antoine Meillet, based on the intense Ionic elements of the Koine — such as σσ instead of ττ and ρσ instead of ρρ (θάλασσα — θάλαττα, ἀρσενικός — ἀρρενικός) — considered Koine to be a simplified form of Ionic.[4] The final answer which is academically accepted today was given by the Greek linguist G. N. Hatzidakis, who proved that, despite the "composition of the Four", the "stable nucleus" of Koine Greek is Attic. In other words, Koine Greek can be regarded as Attic with the admixture of elements especially from Ionic, but also from other dialects. The degree of importance of the non-Attic linguistic elements on Koine can vary depending on the region of the Hellenistic World.[4] In that respect, the varieties of Koine spoken in the Ionian colonies of Asia Minor and Cyprus would have more intense Ionic characteristics than others. The literary Koine of the Hellenistic age resembles Attic in such a degree that it is often mentioned as Common Attic.[4]
    Last edited by Ummon; September 14, 2009 at 05:24 AM.

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