A rather silly question

[Harbringerxv8]

Well, the new semester has started, it's stupidly hot in California, and everything around me is on fire. Naturally, my mind is on a rather questionable series of points that one of my professors has made.

He seems to be of the opinion that the cause for the Reformation (which apparently occurred in 1550) is in fact the discovery of the New World in 1492. Apparently, because he has concluded that the Bible (central to the philosophy and character of European society in that time period) is invalidated by the discovery of the new world (because the Bible does not mention the new world), this led to an upheaval of European theology and mass confusion, leading many to question their beliefs to the point of entering the Protestant movements.

I'm not going to lie, it took quite a bit of effort not to burst out laughing during the class (as apparently the Bible is white supremacist literature), but I have to ask the question. Is there any historical documents whatsoever, be it a journal, treatise, diary, or anything that would substantiate the claim that the discovery of the New World sent all of Europe into religious turmoil? I'd really like to know, as my head is hurting quite a bit from this... information.

[My Favorite Martian]

Wiki helps

Reformation, Renaissance, Enlightment, etc.

Middel Ages
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages
------------------------------------------------------------------
Renaissance
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance

Renaissance Humanism
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaissance_humanism

Protestanism
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reformation
->> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheran_Orthodoxy
->> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism

Counter-Reformation, Tridentine Catholizism
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-Reformation
->> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Trent
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Absolutism and Age of Enlightenment
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment
-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment
->> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haskalah

[hellheaven1987]

No, in fact, Chatholic reform had been continued for a long time; Protestants were just cut off their connection with Rome (which, had already happened on certain Catholic reforms, such as the one in Bohemia).

Not to mention Christianity was actually in its peak during 16th Century.

[clandestino]

I think that Europe was in religious turmoil a lot before discovery of the new world and that singling out geographical discoveries as cause of reformation is pretty idiotic thing to say for college professor.

[Razor]

I wouldn't call it THE cause but A cause. As well as people being unhappy with the Catholic church and wanted to reform. And like you said there were already voices from within the church that called for reform.

[clandestino]

I wouldn't call it THE cause but A cause.

So as the fear of going to hell for :wub:.

[Knight of Heaven]

So as the fear of going to hell for :wub:.

Oh my dont tell me things like that

I wouldn't call it THE cause but A cause. As well as people being unhappy with the Catholic church and wanted to reform. And like you said there were already voices from within the church that called for reform.

Indeed, very well put it. But christianity has seen division since ancient times, so there is nothing new in this conceipt. what you can say mainly, is the discovery of the new world, at pair with the maritime route to india, put in cause some comon dogmas. This dogmas naturaly connected to the Church "monopoly" of education at least at some point in the midle ages. Im saying the ideia of the world to be flat for instance. true to be told, the maritime discoveries, had their part in causing a new era (renaissance) in europe, and im not saying it was the cause, but certainly was a cause. with these voyages not only topography, but science begin to change by force of circunstances, naturaly a colision of conceipts about the world will happen, and also naturaly some will be used as weight to any philosophy connected to power. And this only for starters i belive.

[Rt. Hon. Gentleman]

As a senior academic myself, I despise professors who don't know their stuff. They should be found and flogged.

[My Favorite Martian]

It is a bit an extreme case.

[Harbringerxv8]

So, naturally, those wiki articles had very little to mention of the discovery of the New World and its effect on religious thought, but I just can't seem to find any justification for anything other than Europeans rubbing their hands together at the concept of new economic and territorial conquests! I consider myself relatively educated on the causes of the Reformation, which runs the gamut from German political machinations to corrupt pontiffs to poor economic conditions and all of the above (obviously there's another 100 or so reasons for the cause of the Reformation; it hardly came out of thin air), but never have I once found a contemporary historical document expressing religious concern of the discovery of the New World, and CERTAINLY not from anyone who would have had anything to do with the Reformation.

[My Favorite Martian]

The discovery of the West Inides lays 20 years back when Reformation begins. It is a too short time span to influence developments in regions which have not even a direct access to the Sea or which are traditionally orientated towards the Mediterranean basin.

[hellheaven1987]

So, naturally, those wiki articles had very little to mention of the discovery of the New World and its effect on religious thought, but I just can't seem to find any justification for anything other than Europeans rubbing their hands together at the concept of new economic and territorial conquests! I consider myself relatively educated on the causes of the Reformation, which runs the gamut from German political machinations to corrupt pontiffs to poor economic conditions and all of the above (obviously there's another 100 or so reasons for the cause of the Reformation; it hardly came out of thin air), but never have I once found a contemporary historical document expressing religious concern of the discovery of the New World, and CERTAINLY not from anyone who would have had anything to do with the Reformation.

It was because the center of reformation was, strange, never connected with oversea colonies until very late, some even had no relation with anywhere outside of Europe at all.

Strickly, the founder of New World, Spain, hardly reformed at all; rather, it was land locked Bohemia and part of Germany started the reform. In fact, we can even argue that the discover of New World actually deeper the church influence, particularly the Catholic church.

[My Favorite Martian]

Two connections come me to mind:

The Welser financed an expeditions to today Venezuela in 1530 and 1534. The Welser were not Protestants and loyal to the Emperor though.

The revenues from the expeditions of Cortes and Pizarro certainly helped the Emperor Charles V to finance his wars against the Francois I, the Ottomans and non-submissive german territorial lords.

wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles..._Roman_Emperor

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

Ah idiotic history teachers.. just like mine who said that the "Holy Roman Emperor ruled from Constantinople" and that German people are Aryan..

[lawless_sage]

Ah idiotic history teachers.. just like mine who said that the "Holy Roman Emperor ruled from Constantinople" and that German people are Aryan..

Wow really sorry this is off topic but did your teacher really say that or are you making it up

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

Wow really sorry this is off topic but did your teacher really say that or are you making it up

He did.. needless to say I put in for a class transfer the same day and now I have a teacher who actually teaches relevant things rather than talking about how great the Republican party is..

[lawless_sage]

He did.. needless to say I put in for a class transfer the same day and now I have a teacher who actually teaches relevant things rather than talking about how great the Republican party is..

happy ending i suppose i would definitely like to test-out of my world history class but i missed the date and i only went to school for 3 days so i cant just show up and say "i know everything the teacher is teaching me"
i am just amazed a teacher would actually say that that is way too far from the truth

[Romanman]

hahaha, there should be a show called history teachers say the darndest things.

it could be a cause but its not the cause( someone else made that good point)

its not as bad as one of my student teachers who didn't know where jerusalem is (we had just finished a whole unit on Islam)
or my other history teachers who think american revolutionary warriors are terrorists.

was the discovery of the new world a huge shock for europe and the catholic church probably, but they (clergy) probably said something like "The lord blesses us by giving us more land and souls to save, its our mission" and the kings probably said " yes we can get more gold... i mean souls to save"

the real shock for the catholic church came from when farmer bill learned how to read and said "hey it (bible) doesn't say anything about a pope or me having to pray to a priest."

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Is there any historical documents whatsoever, be it a journal, treatise, diary, or anything that would substantiate the claim that the discovery of the New World sent all of Europe into religious turmoil? I'd really like to know, as my head is hurting quite a bit from this... information.

Absolutely none afaik. The New World was seen as a new missionary field, not turning Christianity on its head.

[Romanos IV]

I'm not a teacher or anything, but from my little knowledge about the state of catholicism in the 15th-16th centuries it is known the Reformation began with Martin Luther. His supporters were much more radical than him and relations between them and the catholic church were severed and, finally, cut.

Martin Luther's motivation to publish his 95 theses came from the practice of selling indulgences by the bishops. Another cause can be found in the increasing secularization of the catholic church. (For example, two archbishops, those of Cologne and Mainz were granted the right to elect the German Emperor after the Golden Bull of 1356. (along with 5 other rulers in the HRE))

Nowhere in his 95 theses he said: "The Bible writes nothing about the New Word, therefore it doesn't have its facts straight." On the contrary, since he and his supporters based their faith on the Bilble exclusively*, that shows that he 'trusted' it more than anything else to guide him.

So, we conclude with the following question: If Martin Luther cut his relations with the Catholic church and came in direct confrontation with it because of the supposed Bible's inaccuracy and lack of validity, how could he base his entire -new- faith on it?

Simply, that was not the case.

*as it shows when addressing to Emperor Charles V and Cardinal Cajetan in the Diet of Worms, amongst other texts of his