David Cameron - Suspiciously good politics

[Denny Crane!]

I'm starting to get suspicious of David Cameron, surely there is no one this well tapped into what the public want and when to say exactly the right things that I am actually - an avowed self appointed fanatical libertarian - going to consider going to the voting booths to get this guy in power because even if a couple of things he wants gets in it will make the country a better place and set lasting precedents that will change the face of politics forever.

For instance in an interview today he suggested a large broad quite frankly amazing scheme to publish everything if possible that is spent by all government departments and offices online. So say for example we want to know where the unbelievable amount of money that the countries largest employer the NHS gets ends up we can look online and question then fire the fools that allowed the NHS to buy A FRICKING YACHT.

This is such an unbelievably major move for any society that has to put up with forced taxation to actually have a chance to see the waste and see the corruption. This one single move would make it worth electing him, it would change the face of UK politics. My only question is whether or not it is logistically feasible.

He is also going to cut the absolutely stunning gourmet meals and drinks available for MP's that they can get for less than the price of a small McDonalds (about half of that actually) and a score of other little measures which will save a 100 million here and 100 million there which as he admits is a pinprick in the national debt but it is a cultural change which will to a small extent help to eliminate some of the waste and corruption in society.

It is quite frankly suspicious, he is either actually potentially a good PM or a secret megalomaniac who knows how to tell us exactly what he wants right up until the point he gets the finger on the nukes

[Poach]

He looks so good because he isn't in power. Both he and Gordon have the ability to say nice things to the public, but only Brown has to answer for what happens in government. Thus, Cameron has the advantage in that there's nothing making him look bad, he can say what he wants because he doesn't actually have to make it happen, and can casually forget he said it further down the line if it turns out that doing that would be problematic, whilst Mr.Brown would be expected to make something happen fairly soon after saying such.

Not that I'm a Brown supporter btw, just explaining the situation.

[Denny Crane!]

He looks so good because he isn't in power. Both he and Gordon have the ability to say nice things to the public,

Can you show me what good things have come out of Browns mouth? I haven't seen them but I am interested.

but only Brown has to answer for what happens in government. Thus, Cameron has the advantage in that there's nothing making him look bad, he can say what he wants because he doesn't actually have to make it happen, and can casually forget he said it further down the line if it turns out that doing that would be problematic, whilst Mr.Brown would be expected to make something happen fairly soon after saying such.

Not that I'm a Brown supporter btw, just explaining the situation.

I don't need it explained. Can you explain to me why Nick Clegg's policies aren't looking this healthy? He isn't in power either but he is a consumate politician, unfortunately for him he pretty much only has Nick Clegg keeping them from being anything but a joke. They can't even whip up a good scandal/recovery to get them in the papers.

As for what Cameron is proposing some of it is pretty small fry as opposed to the multibillion pound huge mercy flushes that have been a constant long running feature of the Labour government for little return when they have been implemented. What he is proposing could create a massive culture change in government for little cost saving hundreds of millions, opening up political and government expenditure to the entire public and allowing for so much more scrutiny making it so much more difficult for the next labour government to screw us so badly.

What I'm saying is it is low cost easy to implement and will create a massive amount of change. It isn't just a good idea, it is a monumentally astounding idea that isn't going to cost hundreds of billions, require radical restructuring of anything, require vastly complicated reform etc etc.

But as I say if you think Brown has to say good things and has said them either before they were elected or after I'd love to see it.

[Каие]

Cutting the food in the Commons is just a public pleaser. It will only save some £10 million which is peanuts in political terms. Perks are always to be expected in top careers, and politic is a top career, hence some perks are required. Just a people pleasing idea of no real significance except to tap into the ''Politicians are bastards'' vote.

[Digbert]

"Meet the new boss same as the old boss"

[RTW Fan]

I'm starting to get suspicious of David Cameron, surely there is no one this well tapped into what the public want and when to say exactly the right things that I am actually - an avowed self appointed fanatical libertarian - going to consider going to the voting booths to get this guy in power because even if a couple of things he wants gets in it will make the country a better place and set lasting precedents that will change the face of politics forever.

For instance in an interview today he suggested a large broad quite frankly amazing scheme to publish everything if possible that is spent by all government departments and offices online. So say for example we want to know where the unbelievable amount of money that the countries largest employer the NHS gets ends up we can look online and question then fire the fools that allowed the NHS to buy A FRICKING YACHT.

This is such an unbelievably major move for any society that has to put up with forced taxation to actually have a chance to see the waste and see the corruption. This one single move would make it worth electing him, it would change the face of UK politics. My only question is whether or not it is logistically feasible.

He is also going to cut the absolutely stunning gourmet meals and drinks available for MP's that they can get for less than the price of a small McDonalds (about half of that actually) and a score of other little measures which will save a 100 million here and 100 million there which as he admits is a pinprick in the national debt but it is a cultural change which will to a small extent help to eliminate some of the waste and corruption in society.

It is quite frankly suspicious, he is either actually potentially a good PM or a secret megalomaniac who knows how to tell us exactly what he wants right up until the point he gets the finger on the nukes

All Libertarians are just waiting to become socialists so you may as well vote labor anyway.

[the Black Prince]

is it something that can be delievered? Yes, not to hard. All the reports on spending already exist, a large amount of it is available to anyone who can be bothered to make an FoI for it anyway (subject to commericially sensitive info and data protection) all he is suggesting is sticking all that on a website site somewhere. Given that storing archive info like this is cheaper in a digital format than in a paper format, moving the archives is already happening in most departments anyway, all Cameron is proposing is making it accessible.

But as you say, it nots actually much work, but its a fundamental shift in the way government operates. It is genuine open government.

[Denny Crane!]

All Libertarians are just waiting to become socialists so you may as well vote labor anyway.

Do you think you are visiting bedlam to throw such copper pennies at me sir?

Cutting the food in the Commons is just a public pleaser. It will only save some £10 million which is peanuts in political terms. Perks are always to be expected in top careers, and politic is a top career, hence some perks are required. Just a people pleasing idea of no real significance except to tap into the ''Politicians are bastards'' vote.

That was a minor part of the post but as an aside I can tell you that somebody dying because they can't get the right cancer drug 10 million is not an insignificant amount of money and as taken as a wider perceptual and actual shift in government ethos of not wasting everything down to the last penny.

Perhaps it isn't obvious to someone who hasn't ran a business before but you have expressed an interesst in it, if you do small or large whatever you are you do care about insignificant amounts of waste because if you don't you find your business is bleeding money out of every orifice. Anyone in business will trot out clichés like ''look after the pennies'' because there is real life saving validity in the philosophy.

is it something that can be delievered? Yes, not to hard. All the reports on spending already exist, a large amount of it is available to anyone who can be bothered to make an FoI for it anyway (subject to commericially sensitive info and data protection) all he is suggesting is sticking all that on a website site somewhere. Given that storing archive info like this is cheaper in a digital format than in a paper format, moving the archives is already happening in most departments anyway, all Cameron is proposing is making it accessible.

But as you say, it nots actually much work, but its a fundamental shift in the way government operates. It is genuine open government.

And that is the big point, it is the cultural change and openess and if that is all he achieves then it would be worth voting him in for that.

[RTW Fan]

Do you think you are visiting bedlam to throw such copper pennies at me sir?

Hey, just look at your own history... men like Bertrand Russell

And do you really care whether a politician eats good food?

Pious men are only good leaders in war.

[Denny Crane!]

Hey, just look at your own history... men like Bertrand Russell

And do you really care whether a politician eats good food?

Pious men are only good leaders in war.

I've already posted the reasons to RomeKB8 why such changes are important, if you can't see it is probably because you don't have the requisite experience either in management, business or life. It is precisely this attitude which leads to a government like Labour throwing millions away left right and center. Find 100 examples of 10 million being wasted and how much is that? It is important both in terms of management, and also in the culture and psychology in which decisions are made.

As for your thoughts about my future and your anecdotes about leadership, I said before; save your copper pennies you aren't in bedlam here and I am not some lunatic for you to throw meaningless vapid platitudes at. They aren't profound or relevant to this thread.


Edit: Antares:

A lot of the time I'm disappointed because they make ridiculously bold claims that would require mind boggling levels of coordination and change as well as superb levels of management and a lot of the time are simply impossible. I was not impressed by Labours proposals when they were shadowing and I'm not impressed even remotely by the Liberal Democrats.

THe only person who promised radical change, and fulfilled it successfully was Maggie Thatcher and we are still reaping the benefits now in the UK.

What Cameron has proposed as policy isn't particularly radical, he isn't promising amazing huge reforms like Labour did and he isn't promising to revolutionise any industries. He is simply proposing more open more thrifty sensible government. Which isn't amazingly hard to deliver, so why not get a little enthused?

[antares24]

I've already posted the reasons to RomeKB8 why such changes are important, if you can't see it is probably because you don't have the requisite experience either in management, business or life. It is precisely this attitude which leads to a government like Labour throwing millions away left right and center. Find 100 examples of 10 million being wasted and how much is that? It is important both in terms of management, and also in the culture and psychology in which decisions are made.

As for your thoughts about my future and your anecdotes about leadership, I said before; save your copper pennies you aren't in bedlam here and I am not some lunatic for you to throw meaningless vapid platitudes at. They aren't profound or relevant to this thread.


Edit: Antares:

A lot of the time I'm disappointed because they make ridiculously bold claims that would require mind boggling levels of coordination and change as well as superb levels of management and a lot of the time are simply impossible. I was not impressed by Labours proposals when they were shadowing and I'm not impressed even remotely by the Liberal Democrats.

THe only person who promised radical change, and fulfilled it successfully was Maggie Thatcher and we are still reaping the benefits now in the UK.

What Cameron has proposed as policy isn't particularly radical, he isn't promising amazing huge reforms like Labour did and he isn't promising to revolutionise any industries. He is simply proposing more open more thrifty sensible government. Which isn't amazingly hard to deliver, so why not get a little enthused?

i agree with you on what you say above that even little expense cuts are important, and i also agree on the fact that radical reforms are difficult, but by looking at how governments and burocracies tend to work i dare to say that making a lot of little reforms and changes in many different sectors, to make a more sensible, leaner and more efficient government and public administration is actually more difficult that making a few radical reforms.

The latter can be forced trought parliament by a strong government, the firsts require a long and prolonged work by the Gov against the status quo loving burocracy

[RTW Fan]

I've already posted the reasons to RomeKB8 why such changes are important, if you can't see it is probably because you don't have the requisite experience either in management, business or life. It is precisely this attitude which leads to a government like Labour throwing millions away left right and center. Find 100 examples of 10 million being wasted and how much is that? It is important both in terms of management, and also in the culture and psychology in which decisions are made.

As for your thoughts about my future and your anecdotes about leadership, I said before; save your copper pennies you aren't in bedlam here and I am not some lunatic for you to throw meaningless vapid platitudes at. They aren't profound or relevant to this thread.


?

You may not be a lunatic but the notion that a 3rd party candidate can make a significant difference in a two party system is maniacal. A good platitude a day keeps the cynicism away anyway.

The stimulus packages have so much waste in them anyway that it seems difficult to contemplate what a difference of 10 million to keep the people that work for us happy would make... and if the experience of my own country is anything to go by, entrenched beaurecracy and special interest groups will never stop fighting and wasting no matter what example pollies set.

[antares24]

I'm starting to get suspicious of David Cameron, surely there is no one this well tapped into what the public want and when to say exactly the right things that I am actually - an avowed self appointed fanatical libertarian - going to consider going to the voting booths to get this guy in power because even if a couple of things he wants gets in it will make the country a better place and set lasting precedents that will change the face of politics forever.

For instance in an interview today he suggested a large broad quite frankly amazing scheme to publish everything if possible that is spent by all government departments and offices online. So say for example we want to know where the unbelievable amount of money that the countries largest employer the NHS gets ends up we can look online and question then fire the fools that allowed the NHS to buy A FRICKING YACHT.

This is such an unbelievably major move for any society that has to put up with forced taxation to actually have a chance to see the waste and see the corruption. This one single move would make it worth electing him, it would change the face of UK politics. My only question is whether or not it is logistically feasible.

He is also going to cut the absolutely stunning gourmet meals and drinks available for MP's that they can get for less than the price of a small McDonalds (about half of that actually) and a score of other little measures which will save a 100 million here and 100 million there which as he admits is a pinprick in the national debt but it is a cultural change which will to a small extent help to eliminate some of the waste and corruption in society.

It is quite frankly suspicious, he is either actually potentially a good PM or a secret megalomaniac who knows how to tell us exactly what he wants right up until the point he gets the finger on the nukes

eh it's easy to propose good ideas when you're at the opposition, but it's really difficult to actually implement them.

Let's face it in every country there are a lot of government expenses there are simply mind blowing in their stupidity, but they are kept becouse they please someone in power or some group of voters.

The publications online of every expense however is a very good idea, here in Italy too the public administration minister is working to publish every expense of the government online, and also the curricula of every one who get a senior position in every public job. I'm curious to see if he would be allowed to do this, and if Cameron would implement this too once he's in power.

But don't hold your breath for every of Cameron proposal to be applied, he's a politician after all, so you risk serious disappointments