Revenge on Ethnic Germans: Czech Town Divided over How to Commemorate 1945 Massacre

[Ebusitanus]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/...646757,00.html

By Hans-Ulrich Stoldt

More than six decades after the end of World War II, long-suppressed information about a massacre of around 2,000 Sudeten Germans in June 1945 is dividing the Czech town of Postoloprty. Supporters of a memorial to the incident are clashing with those who want to forget all about the murders.

Nobody could really say why the five boys had joined the fatigue party of men on that fateful summer's day in 1945. Some thought they were hungry, others that they were trying to flee the wrath of the Czechoslovakian army.

Hundreds of Germans had been herded together on the parade ground in the Czech town of Postoloprty (known in German as Postelberg) on June 6, 1945, just a month after the end of World War II in Europe. They could clearly see the fatigue party heading off. The five boys who had hidden among the men were discovered and led back.

"Mr Marek wanted the boys to be flogged," recalls 81-year-old Peter Klepsch, an eye-witness. "But Captain Cerny, the commander of the Czech troops, said the boys should be shot."

The boys' names were Horst, Eduard, Hans, Walter, and Heinz. The oldest was 15, the youngest 12. They were flogged and then shot dead -- in full view of the others, who were held back at gunpoint. The Czechs didn't use machine guns, but their rifles, so it took a long time to kill all five. "One of the boys who hadn't been mortally wounded by the gunfire ran up to the marksmen begging to be allowed to go to his mother," recalls 80-year-old Heinrich Giebitz. "They just carried on shooting."

More at link. Sordid and depressing reading.

[Tiberios]

Yes. Very depressing. Hopefully a memorial will be built. Murdering these people just because they were Germans makes these Czech soldiers nothing better then the SS.

[Phalanx300]

Yes. Very depressing. Hopefully a memorial will be built. Murdering these people just because they were Germans makes these Czech soldiers nothing better then the SS.

Agreed. I also watch a WW2 special yesterday when a lot of Prussian decided to flee Prussia to western Germany and Russian pilots actually shot at the unprotected civilians, who were only the elderly, women and children! And then said he(still alive) didn't regret any of that, that made my stumach switch. He's no better than those damn Nazis.

Presumed casualties: in the 10.000s....

[Lysimachos11]

Agreed. I also watch a WW2 special yesterday when a lot of Prussian decided to flee Prussia to western Germany and Russian pilots actually shot at the unprotected civilians, who were only the elderly, women and children! And then said he(still alive) didn't regret any of that, that made my stumach switch. He's no better than those damn Nazis.

Presumed casualties: in the 10.000s....

Casualties for all forcibly expelled Germans are in the millions, with around 1 million dead by execution, exhaustion, disease etc.


@OP,
The way I see it there was never good or bad in WW2 on a personal level (save for extreme examples, like SS camp guards). The average German soldier or civilian was no better of worse than their Allied/Soviet counterpart. Only because Germany lost the propaganda war, and the war itself are they now the "bad guys". Movies like Inglourious Basterds disgust me, I think it should have been forbidden.

[Phalanx300]

[QUOTE=Lysimachos11;5921243]Casualties for all forcibly expelled Germans are in the millions, with around 1 million dead by execution, exhaustion, disease etc.
[QUOTE]

They were talking about the fleeing Prussians getting massacered taking the route aside the water, many more were killed. Add that to the Soviet citizens killed by its own state and you'll see that the Soviets were just as bad as the Nazis.

[Nikitn]

Casualties for all forcibly expelled Germans are in the millions, with around 1 million dead by execution, exhaustion, disease etc.

Why stop there? WHY NOT 10 MILLION?

Seriously, in the entire war (including the bombing campaigns) a bit more than 1 million German civilians died. In the entire war FFS. Where do you people get this stuff from?

[Ebusitanus]

Why stop there? WHY NOT 10 MILLION?

Seriously, in the entire war (including the bombing campaigns) a bit more than 1 million German civilians died. In the entire war FFS. Where do you people get this stuff from?

Pray to ask, where did YOU get that 1 million figure? I have always understood it lay around the 2 million at least.

[TeutonicCrusader]

Hitler would have made it quick with that village.

[hellheaven1987]

Na, after that Czech government kicked all German out of Czech - an act that was not much better than what Nazi did.

[Odovacar]

People are usually "brave" when occupiers leave....

[Ahlerich]

reading stuff like this and its not even free of dicussion to put up a memorial really makes me angry that a over 80 year old german officer has received a life long sentence a couple of months ago for killing about 10 suspected partisans when the criminals of other nations are not even beeing punnished at all.

[Tiberios]

reading stuff like this and its not even free of dicussion to put up a memorial really makes me angry that a over 80 year old german officer has received a life long sentence a couple of months ago for killing about 10 suspected partisans when the criminals of other nations are not even beeing punnished at all.

If they can't be proved to not have been partisans, shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt? I mean as far as I know the rules regarding POW's doesn't apply to Partisans so in essence it's allowed to execute them on the spot.

[hellheaven1987]

reading stuff like this and its not even free of dicussion to put up a memorial really makes me angry that a over 80 year old german officer has received a life long sentence a couple of months ago for killing about 10 suspected partisans when the criminals of other nations are not even beeing punnished at all.

You mean the former German SS that been force-sent back to Germany from US a few months ago?? From what I have read he got more complicated story, not just killing 10 partisans.

[Ahlerich]

You mean the former German SS that been force-sent back to Germany from US a few months ago?? From what I have read he got more complicated story, not just killing 10 partisans.

no he wasnt german. i am talking about a low ranking officer of the gebirgsjäger who ordered the execution of about 10 civilians (maybe partisans) as retaliation for insurgency. maybe he was even 90, right.

I believe he is talking about that 90 year old who had some issues with the Italian goverment.

if thats the one who was in court in munich a couple months ago, yes.

[Razor]

no he wasnt german. i am talking about a low ranking officer of the gebirgsjäger who ordered the execution of about 10 civilians (maybe partisans) as retaliation for insurgency. maybe he was even 90, right.



if thats the one who was in court in munich a couple months ago, yes.

But.. in all seriousness, what would you expect in war?

[My Favorite Martian]

Murder is murder so or so. It is tragic when civilians come into the fireline. When civilians are chosen as primary targets for a retaliation, there is no excuse. It's true for Lidice and the Germans that have been assassinated in Postoloprty. I think further more soldiers and grades act on their own commit treason and should be court martialled for that and if an officer orders such things then the officer should be court martialled. There is nothing worth than ranks and grades without discipline.

[Gromovnik]

Czechs were maybe pissed about something...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice

[Odovacar]

f they can't be proved to not have been partisans, shouldn't he be given the benefit of the doubt? I mean as far as I know the rules regarding POW's doesn't apply to Partisans so in essence it's allowed to execute them on the spot.

Oh-ho...executing partisans on the spot is every army's usual practive..but Germany won't get away with it!

Czechs were maybe pissed about something...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidice

And they reacted like the nazis in Lidice. Unless those boys distroyed that village with their teddy bears.

[Ebusitanus]

I believe he is talking about that 90 year old who had some issues with the Italian goverment.

[ivan_the_terrible]

That's horrible.

But I think the memorial can be placed outside of the village, if the residents don't want it there. After all, it was the Army that killed them, not the village people. Maybe a memorial near the Army headquarter or something?