Your favourite pre-ww2 tank

**Zarax** · September 06, 2009, 09:32 AM

Allright, quick and dirty.

Tanks threads have been done to death but they usually focus on either WW2 or after.
We all know about Tigers, Panthers, T34, shermans, etc but what about their predecessors?

WW1 and the interwar period were full of interesting (but not necessarily practical or effective) designs that were children of a weapon system still in its infancy.

Prototypes are welcome too, remember this is not a "which tank is best" contest also because most of them never fought a battle.

I'll post my first example:

The Fiat 2000

From Wikipedia:

The FIAT 2000 was an Italian heavy tank of the First World War. It is considered the most advanced tank design of the period

The FIAT 2000 was a substantial vehicle, of comparable dimensions to the British Mark V tanks, and weighing 40 tons as compared to the Mark V's 28 tons.

The armour was of clean design, being made of riveted steel plates. It was 15 mm thick on the sides and 20 mm on the front.

Armament originally consisted of the turret mounted gun and ten machineguns (three on each side and four in front), but this left the rear of the tank undefended and tended to contaminate the interior with propellant fumes, so it was decided to install a ventilator in the roof and alter the machinegun positions to two on each side, three at the rear, and two in front.

Perhaps the most interesting feature of the tank's weaponry was the turret; apart from the Renault FT-17, this was the first tank to have a rotating turret mounted above the hull. The turret was made of four pieces rivetted together and had room enough for two crew members. Its weapon was a 65/17 howitzer (of 65mm caliber with a barrel 17 calibers long). Thanks to the tall turret and the space available beneath it, the gun's elevation was -10/+75°.

**Erebus Pasha** · September 06, 2009, 11:51 AM

The Czar Tank.

**Zarax** · September 06, 2009, 11:52 AM

Would be nice if you could post some pics/info about it.

**Erebus Pasha** · September 06, 2009, 11:54 AM

Sure...it was a Russian prototype tank from WW1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czar_Tank

http://www.landships.freeservers.com/lebedenko_info.htm

**Frederich Barbarossa** · September 06, 2009, 11:59 AM

Panzerkampfwagen IV

**Zarax** · September 06, 2009, 12:00 PM

That's WW2...

**Frederich Barbarossa** · September 06, 2009, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by Zarax

That's WW2...

No it is pre ww2 and ww2. It was designed in 1938 thus pre ww2

**Markas** · September 06, 2009, 12:02 PM

And pre-ww2.

I quite like the French Char B1. Good tank for it's time but sadly misused during the battle for france.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_B

**DAVIDE** · September 06, 2009, 12:17 PM

Fiat 3000

The Fiat 3000, whose design was based on that of the French Renault FT 17, was the first tank to be produced in series in Italy. It was to be the standard tank of the emerging Italian armored units in World War 1. Although 1400 units were ordered, with deliveries to begin in May 1919, the end of the war caused the original order to be cancelled, only 100 were delivered. The first Fiat 3000s entered service in 1921 and were officially designated as the carro d'assalto Fiat 3000, Mod. 21. (Fiat 3000 assault tank, Model 21). Tests of the Mod. 21 revealed that the armament, consisting of two 6.5 mm machine guns, was inadequate, and adoption of a 37 mm gun as main armament was urged. The up-gunned version of the 3000, armed with a 37/40 gun, was tested in 1929 and was officially adopted in 1930 with the designation of carro d'assalto Fiat 3000, Mod. 30. The Mod. 30, in addition to its improved armament, also differed from the Mod. 21 in that it had an improved engine developing more power, its suspension was improved, the engine compartment had a different silhouette, and external stores were stowed differently. Some Model 30s were also produced with two 6.5 mm machine guns as main armament, as on the Model 21, in lieu of the 37mm gun. A limited number of Model 21 vehicles were exported to Albania, Lithuania and Abyssinia (Ethiopia) prior to 1930.
The designations of these tanks were changed prior to the outbreak of World War 2, in accordance with the identification system that was adopted throughout the war by the Italians. The Model 21 was redesignated the L.5/21, and the Model 30 was redesignated the L.5/30.
The Fiat 3000 (Model 21) was first used in action in February 1926 in Libya, and subsequently also saw action against the Ethiopians in 1935. The Italians did not employ any of these tanks in Spain during the Spanish Civil War, however. With Italy's entry into World War 2 in June 1940, a limited number of Fiat 3000s still in service with the Italian Army were employed operationally on the Greek-Albanian front. They were also among the last Italian tanks to oppose the Allies, as in July 1943,' when the Allies landed in Sicily, two Italian tank companies on the island were still equipped with the 3000. One company was dug in. and their vehicles were used as fixed fortifications, while the other company was used in a mobile role, with few of the tanks surviving the Allied drive.

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/I...lianTanks.html

**Zarax** · September 06, 2009, 12:20 PM

A very good tank for it's time, sadly hopelessy obsolete against any armour.
Ironically the fiat 2000 was the heaviest tank ever produced by Italy until modern times, one wonders why development was halted.

**Ebusitanus** · September 06, 2009, 02:02 PM

T-26

**SonOfAlexander** · September 06, 2009, 02:14 PM

That's like saying 'Which farm tool makes the best WMD?' or "Which is your favorurite Asian supervirus?'

They're all rubbish. Pre/WW1 tanks were universally crap. End of story.

**Markas** · September 06, 2009, 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by SonOfAlexander

That's like saying 'Which farm tool makes the best WMD?' or "Which is your favorurite Asian supervirus?'

They're all rubbish. Pre/WW1 tanks were universally crap. End of story.

What a ridiculous thing to say. They were 'universally crap' compared to what? an MBT?

**Lysimachus** · September 06, 2009, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by SonOfAlexander

That's like saying 'Which farm tool makes the best WMD?' or "Which is your favorurite Asian supervirus?'

They're all rubbish. Pre/WW1 tanks were universally crap. End of story.

Best stay away from any historical discussions, huh matey?

**Zarax** · September 06, 2009, 02:15 PM

Err, we're talking about pre-ww2.
Pre-ww1 wouldn't have much sense, would it?

**Ebusitanus** · September 06, 2009, 02:51 PM

BT-5

**Markas** · September 06, 2009, 02:56 PM

Nice piece of kit the BT-5. Fast as hell.

**Zarax** · September 06, 2009, 02:57 PM

Yeah, russians knew how to design tanks (except a few infamous examples).

**Markas** · September 06, 2009, 03:07 PM

Yeah it's a pity J. Walter Christie wasn't really a people person and could only really find a market for his ideas outside the US. Poor guy died broke.