RS Economic Guidelines

[DavidofSassoon]

Hey there fellow RS fanatics, i need some help with general economy in RS, so if you can spare a few moments and explain to me the factors that go into having a good economy. I have played this game for a long long time and frankly have never been able to keep a good economy or even take the time to figure out how it works and instead have used ....cheats...now before i get clubbed to death, i feel bad that i haven't really been enjoying the game to its fullest and i want to know how the hell the economy works in the game and what i can do when say...my capital goes into minus 14k or cities start losing money. Thanks.

[stanley86]

Let me re-post my set of advices from another thread

If you think about restarting your Roman campaign then do it. Now some advice:
1) Set up the taxes as high as possible in all of your cities. Just remember to stay above 100% public order level. By doing this from the very start of your campaign you will keep tight the population. They won't have time to "learn" what freedom and low taxes are, so they will be less likely to rebe. As your empire grows up you may want to lower your taxes (like from very high to high etc) but only if public order drops below 100%
2) Don't neglect shrines and temples. Focus on temples to Juno and Jupiter as they give the biggest bonus to public order. If mines can be build in of the regions build there a temple to Volcan, as it still provides public order bonus but also gives you extra income from mining.
3) The absolute minimum is to build Forum and Shipwright in every city. Build roads to the highest possible level.
4) Build farms (at least level 3) as they provide food to the city, especially huge cities need something to eat.
6) Develop walls and build suburbs/cities etc. as the city grows up.
7) Don't build any Settlement Growth Plan (or how are they called). You don't want your city population to grow up too fast as it would raise the poverty level.
8) Don't forget to build public baths/aqueducts etc. It will keep the citizens happy and protect them from being eaten by The Big Scary Plague
9) Build "extra" buildings like Grain Import Facilities, they increase trading income.
10) Don't expand too fast. Don't raise too many armies in shor time. You may have, let's say, 300 000 dennari, but war can put you in real financial troubles if you don't have a developed infrastructure providing you with constant stream of money.
11) Don't hesitate to (of course accidentally ) "Relocate population", it will raise public order and give you quite large amount of cash. When you conquer a city, and the window pops up asking you to decide what the city's fate will be, scroll the screen and look what the public order is. If you see "red face" then "relocate". If the face is blue or yellow, enslave. And remember to set taxes as high as possible.
12) As stated above by my predecesor, you have to find ballance between buildings making money and providing happiness.
13) Keep small garrisons.

They are all like: "build everything possible, but keep a balance between building and recruiting". You know, healthy and happy city with high public order is a rich city
You may want to check out the whole thread, which is located HERE.

[Leeham991]

You forgot to mention; always fight to live!
Dead soldiers need replacing and that costs money. Only fight the VERY winable wars when possible

[DavidofSassoon]

Wow thanks guys this is gong to help me start my first real R.S. game. But its a little strange though cause the money always goes up and down sometimes drastically without me doing anything in the turns except maybe construct a few buildings or move a few units.

[Ybbon]

In border cities and newly conquered cities, ensure you have spies and assassins nearby or in the cities themselves. The enemy will often put their spies/assassins in which will dramatically bring your happiness down so counter-act them, any you find, kill or bribe to your faction if possible. One of my best ever assassins was a bribed Epirot.

Always have a Governor, not a General in charge.

If a conquered city which you enslaved continues with bad ratings, don't pour more money in. Destroy everything you can to recoup some investment, take all your troops out, set the tax to very high and wait for it to fully rebel or revert, then re-conquer and relocate the population.

Build arenas and hippodromes - you can always bribe them with games and races. I've had cities with daily games and low taxes calm down over time and end up with yearly games and high taxes.

Incidentally, not sure you should have very high taxes - aim for high, I'm sure I've seen it mentioned by DVK or Apple or someone in the RS team, that very high taxes cause corruption traits in the governor and should be avoided in general.

[Edit]: Quick point, Stanley86 - point 13, "keep small garrisons". Does that mean that if the ratings are bad with a big garrison (ie newly conquered), take them all out and leave only a small garrison? It seems counter-intuitive, wouldn't it cause the ratings to get worse? Or is that a longer term ideal, ie reduce the garrison over time until you have a small enough one to keep order but no more?

[stanley86]

[Edit]: Quick point, Stanley86 - point 13, "keep small garrisons". Does that mean that if the ratings are bad with a big garrison (ie newly conquered), take them all out and leave only a small garrison? It seems counter-intuitive, wouldn't it cause the ratings to get worse? Or is that a longer term ideal, ie reduce the garrison over time until you have a small enough one to keep order but no more?

In most cases it's possible to keep a small garrison (3-4 units and governor), even in newly conquered cities (of course if you did "the relocate thing"). But there are some cities that tend to rebel anytime (like Jerusalem etc.), and it forces you to keep bigger garrison (even a full stack). So yes, it is a longer term ideal. To make it clear:
13) Keep as small garrisons as possible
P.S. I heard about corruption and bad traits when taxes are set to very high. But the income is hgher, so... I set taxes on very high and it works in my games And it looks nice: very high taxes and public order 250%

[Durakkon]

Mining is far more lucrative than in normal RTW. Combined with mining bonus temple they are financial powerhouses.

No matter how large your empire remember to keep the cities surrounding your capital up to date with latest farm/dock/trade/health buildings.

[Otto von Bismarck]

Mining is far more lucrative than in normal RTW. Combined with mining bonus temple they are financial powerhouses.

No matter how large your empire remember to keep the cities surrounding your capital up to date with latest farm/dock/trade/health buildings.

Mining is probably one of the most lucrative income earners in the entire game.

[apple]

Yeah keep the taxes on Normal or High otherwise your governor will get bad traits.
Also remember that the more inhabitants a city has, the more money you get from taxes.

[Alavaria]

As for the tax level, the only things I saw when looking at the traits file are:

Trigger governing18
WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

Condition GovernorLoyaltyLevel = loyalty_disillusioned
and GovernorTaxLevel > tax_high

Affects GoodTaxman 1 Chance 75
;------------------------------------------
Trigger governing19
WhenToTest GovernorBuildingCompleted

Condition GovernorLoyaltyLevel > loyalty_content
and GovernorTaxLevel < tax_high

Affects BadTaxman 1 Chance 15

What bad traits are supposed to come from high taxes? I was searching for "Governor Tax Level" if anyone wonders.

[rory o'kane]

they don't come from high taxes - they come from having 50,000, 100,000 or 150,000+ denarii left in the treasury at the end of the turn - it's having a HUGE pile of denarii lying around that causes the corruption traits to appear. so, ideally, at the end of a turn, you want to end up with 49,999 denarii - no additional corruption traits, but enough for an emergency splurge.

[Alavaria]

AH, I see. I thought that having taxes on Very High would give you something bad.

Well, buildings cost a lot, anyway - so one can easily put a ton of money away by queuing buildings, then cancelling if you really need it back. And train a lot (especially with 0-turn). I don't tend to have massive surpluses, though.

[Gaius Omarius]

Aside from the corruption/treasury thing, do Very High tax rates tend to give your characters the "Mean" trait/title? About 3-4 currently have it in my campaign and I've noticed they're stationed in cities that I've set to Very High.

[Alavaria]

Apparently not. "the Mean" comes from the miserly trait. There's a bunch of ways to get it (from your Father, for example) but none of them have to do with the tax level.

Some of the settlements just keep on growing, and I figure if they're gonna hit the max pop/squalor, there's no reason to not let them go wild (building farms) especially since farms give money, and you get happiness penalties for not having them built up all the way. And you need them for barracks ...
- Of course the suburbs (etc) buildings don't do anything, since you can't go below 0 growth bonus. They do give tax bonuses, though.

EDIT: Oh, you can go up to 60K+ population. Squalor goes up to -100% Public Order and -25% Growth. Of course, long before hitting 60K pop, garrisons will become really expensive relative to their public order use ...

[Sebastos Abdes Pantera]

Dont built too many armies too quick, the upkeep gets divided amongst your cities, the biggest taking the most.

[rory o'kane]

trade still beats mining - as you add more cities to your empire, your trade network expands exponentially, and so do your earnings. obviously, the Mediterranean cities are bigger earners than the wilds of Germania, and obviously your frontier towns will earn you less money than your capital and the surrounding cities, but still, trade is by far and away the single biggest earner in the game. Mining and taxes add extra, but trade earns you most of your revenue.

[13lackGu4rd]

some good advise there stanley86 but I strongly suggest to get the temple of Mercury(in the Roman case), Hermes(Greeks), Milqart(Carthage), etc instead of happiness+law temples. the additional trade, which improves with each temple level, is pretty much like a second trader line, both of which can go up to tier 5. I agree with Vulcan for mining cities, as it gives extra mining income and also +2 upgrades to your units, so it also functions as a unit creating city. also get a Mars(again Roman case, other temples for the other factions) temple near by for the +3/+2 experience/moral and you get your armies with crazy stats right from the get go.

rory o'kane, yes trade is still the #1 money maker however mining in RS has been improved when compared to vanilla, hence the others have said that mining is a much stronger economical route in this mod. this is especially true with factions that have +mining income temples such as Rome(Vulcan) and Seleucids(Hephasteus, which gives an even larger bonus). also trading becomes more important when your empire grows bigger, mining isnt dependent on your empire so it can give you a hefty economic boost while you're still small, especially if starting with small factions such as Perganum, Epirus, Syracuse, Bosphorus, etc.

DavidofSassoon, the economy works the same way as in vanilla, just with some additions. there are more income generating buildings, even farms increase trade income now, from tier 3 if I recall correctly. also there is a much larger temple variaty(including extra mining income that I covered above) so a lot more options to play around with. the key to a successful economy is a big empire with lots of trade. aim for coastal cities(as you get both land and sea trade) and of course resource rich cities(such as wine, timber, etc). taxes are also important, which is why occupying a city is more beneficial than exterminating, in the long term that is. however if conquering a large/huge city the likelihood is that you'll suffer public order issues unless you exterminate, and also the squalor will be pretty bad as the AI isnt very good at keeping his cities nice and clean.

if you meant how to work the economy during the campaign, say right from the get go, than I'll say that there are 2 strategies(from vanilla that is, but also works for this and every other mod). the first strategy is to blitz, which means get an army quickly and go on a killing spree, capturing as many cities as you can(hopefuly meaningful cities). in this case the money will come from constantly expanding your empire quickly and exterminating a large town or minor city here and there when money is really tight, but otherwise capturing the rest so you keep the foundations to build your empire uppon them. the second strategy is to build up your economy to make the most out of your current cities, than go on calculated invasions to expand yourself towards your objectives(victory conditions or whatever else you set for yourself). personally I usually combine both methods, every faction(in every mod including vanilla) starts with some basic troops, so I use these to conquer neighboring cities, while I build up my economy buildings at home. I aim at capturing a big city(Carthage, Antioch, Athens, etc, depends on which faction I play) quickly and use it as my new base of operations(aka troop making+retraining city). than I continue with the conquests as long as my army lasts than I slowly work on military structures in a few strategic cities(close to next invasion areas, big cities already) while continuing to work on my economy on the other cities.

my approach sounds good on paper, however it isnt perfect by any means. a lot of people who love blitzing will swear by their strategy, and they will capture key cities very quickly and make their lives a lot easier, than have plenty of time and money to work on their economy. others who like to sit and build up(mainly in already large factions such as Carthage and the Seleucids in RS) swear by their strategy because they get a lot of money relatively quickly and than funding invasions is no longer a problem. my point is that there's no right or wrong answer, you have at least 3 valid choices of strategies to try out. obviously some strategies work better with certain factions than with others, it's part of each faction's unique gaming experience. also in vanilla there's a big difference between playing a civilized faction as opposed to a barbarian faction, in RS this difference has been somewhat nullified, but it's still there(temple tiers for example).

now that you hopefuly have a better idea on how the economy works on this game(both vanilla and mods such as RS) and you learned some strategies on how to utilize this economy, it's up to you to experiment and find out which method(s) you like best. have fun, cause after all that's what playing(any game for that matter) is all about.

[Alavaria]

Oddly enough, as Syracuse I managed to do a lot of conquest using mostly Militia Hoplites, which are thankfully trainable everywhere (guess they're the revolt unit). It helps keep costs down, as well. I had issues with using elite units when fighting the Romans, thanks to their pila, but when they're just killing militia unit #8 out of 12, it's somehow bearable. I also take along another 10 or so units as reinforcements, but usually they don't do anything ...

Enslaving is nice, as it gets population from a conquered town into (mostly) your already happy towns and keeps things up. Since every settlement gets a governor, if you keep taking and enslaving them, the first few ones you take will grow nicely with enough time to build up public order and the later ones will have some breathing room for temple building or something.

-----

Does everyone else have settlements breaking 30K population (and still growing) after a while? I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to build the population growth incentive line and just let the population skyrocket through the roof - since I'm close to not needing any garrison for public order (at VH tax), and the squalor PO penalty's already maxed out at 100% for a few of the biggest towns. Even if it's necessary to lower taxes, bigger population is good for trade after all (and taxes) ...

Also, many of my governers get the taxman traits (Cruelly Efficient Taxman heh) and the trait that gives unrest but adds law (sweet). Must be keeping VH taxes on everything. It also seems that Law maxes out at 125%, so some of my cities are wasting a little public order.

I usually tend to keep VH taxes, and let the city grow as fast as it can. This, of course, means that for a good part of it's life any happiness bonuses are wasted, so I just focus on law ones and keep moving.

[stanley86]

Well, I never build Populaton Growth Initiatives. I'm satisfied with the pop growth, it allows me to easily recruit many units and the income is fair enough.I'm in 600AUC or so in my campaign and I can spend money on building in every cities (more than 100 I guess) every turn and I can keep like 15 VE legions with reinforcements easily. And I'm not even close to 50k at the end of turn (usually it's like 70-120k), the income is at the level of 225-250k every turn. You may say: you have a great empire, your trade went crazy. But I've never really get problems with construction, recruiting or army upkeep, even at the start of game (before 500).

[Alavaria]

Hmm, I use the "can I keep every settlement building something" yardstick for my finances. If I can do so with no problems, I keep on recruiting soldiers until I end up with ~49K at the end of my turn. If I can't, I stop recruiting, and as soldiers die/ settlements grow/finish economic buildings things get better. And of course those soldiers died to get settlements.

I was thinking about using pop growth after hitting 24K population, and stabilising public order at VH taxes, with 0% garrison effect @ -100% PO from squalor. At that point, more population doesn't hurt you - also I'm just curious since apparently squalor goes up to -25% population growth, and I wanna see a city with over 50K...