Pirates Should Not Have Access To Galleons Or Other Trade Ships...

[Sir Winston Churchill]

What more do I have to say?

[Elmar]

Well, you could tell us why you feel that way.
Pirates were in the business of obtaining trade vessels but did their damnedest to avoid anything that reeked of warship. They'd never engage one unless forced to, because the risk versus reward balance was just way bad. And you can't just buy a frigate either.
So... I can't believe I'm writing this but pirates should have more sloops and brigs. Yeah, I know! What everyone else has too much of, the pirates have too little. These types of ships were the bread and butter of what pirates would jump at to overpower. A number of merchantmen would get snapped up, but these were already formidable opponents. And very occasionally, the more accomplished pirate would try their luck with a galleon.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Well let's see, I just ran into a pirate navy that consisted of 5 freaking Galleons (that was an extreme case, I admit I have not seen anything like that before nor after this incident), and thus my entire navy of brigs and sloops along with a few 5th rates (it's early game, this kinda pirate fleet could take on the whole world and not die at this point in time) were decimated or captured, not taking 1 down with them.

You're right, pirates should have more brigs and sloops, I welcome that. Less big time ships and trade ships though please.

[mightyfenrir]

Well, you could tell us why you feel that way.
Pirates were in the business of obtaining trade vessels but did their damnedest to avoid anything that reeked of warship. They'd never engage one unless forced to, because the risk versus reward balance was just way bad. And you can't just buy a frigate either.
So... I can't believe I'm writing this but pirates should have more sloops and brigs. Yeah, I know! What everyone else has too much of, the pirates have too little. These types of ships were the bread and butter of what pirates would jump at to overpower. A number of merchantmen would get snapped up, but these were already formidable opponents. And very occasionally, the more accomplished pirate would try their luck with a galleon.

and schooners... there should be privateers! Run it like in Civ 3 where you could get a privateer and it wouldn't cause war, just disrupt unfriendly, but not at war, neighbor's trade lines... hmm...

[General500]

Umm, No they should have access to Gallons AND other trade ships.

Why not? First it's to easy now it's to hard to defeat em?
I find the pirates a nusience, not a threat. If you hate em so bad just go and take their two islands consisted of pirate militia...

If anything Great Britain and Spain build wayyyy to much ships then they should or afford.

I so agree with most people when on VH they should have the same encomie troubles as we do early game and etc.

[pc_gamer321]

Yea, I don't see how its a big deal. What, you want to feel invincible now?
Take out the pirate islands. Sneak a fleet down there.

Strategize.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Please stay on topic.

First, it was never too easy to defeat them. 2nd, a Galleon has 3 decks and 60 cannons total, as well as 170 or so crewmen. In the early period that is pretty strong if not a behemoth of a ship. It's not as easy.

Also, how do you take 2 pirate islands when you can't build or transport a fleet and army to the islands to raid?

Please, the topic is "Pirates Should (Not) Have Access To Galleons or Other Trade Ships.


Post edited. Do not insult others. - Thanatos

[General500]

Please stay on topic.

First, it was never too easy to defeat them. 2nd, a Galleon has 3 decks and 60 cannons total, as well as 170 or so crewmen. In the early period that is pretty strong if not a behemoth of a ship. It's not as easy.

Also, how do you take 2 pirate islands when you can't build or transport a fleet and army to the islands to raid?

Please, the topic is "Pirates Should (Not) Have Access To Galleons or Other Trade Ships.


Post edited. Do not insult others. - Thanatos

I did it with America, I built an indiaman or ship or whatever they're called....

and just avoided the pirates [This is the 4th RTI part so basicly the grand campaign] and I landed with 4 militia and 2 line and owned both the islands.

[pc_gamer321]

Dude, I was replying to your post, and saying why it doesn't matter. You complained how its bad and too hard, while I say so you lose a battle, so what? You can't be too invincible.
And you start ranting? Seriously now? Don't make topics if people can't discuss.

And I didn't use cap locks and excessive amounts of question marks and exclamations either.

Do we all have to agree with you now?
Fine, argument has ended because argument never had substance anyway.

[Tim_Ward]

I endorse this message. No matter how poorly expressed.

Pirates should be an opponent which require numbers rather than quality to deal with. There should be plenty of small fleets of brigs and sloops spawning near trade lanes, and you should need a decent fleet of small ships yourself to counter this.

Instead, some of the most heavily armed and effective fleets you'll face in any give game are pirate fleets. It's not that they're 'hard', it's that they're harder than the navies of major powers.

Personally, I don't even bother with them until I have third rates. Taking on their uber-galleons with 5th and 4ths is just a waste of resources better spent elsewhere.

Then, of course, once you've captured their two little islands in the Caribbean piracy is somehow eradicated everywhere in the world but the Med.

Because of, uh, you know... magnets.

Pirates the most ill-conceived aspect of Empire Total War? Science says yes.

[Shabby_Ronin]

Many "pirates" were actually in the employ of states and had access to quality ships, with the charge of causing as much destruction to an enemy state as possible, also pirates would take captured ships and use them. I see no problem with them being in powerful ships, why have them at all if they are going to be impotent? If it's that much of a bother, navy seal into the islands and take em out, it isn't hard.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Many "pirates" were actually in the employ of states and had access to quality ships,

It's too bad ETW isn't advanced enough to have that kind of game mechanic, or else I'd agree with you.

also pirates would take captured ships and use them.

Too bad in ETW they build them. In mass.

I see no problem with them being in powerful ships,

You see no problem with having to face a 5 Galleon strong pirate fleet (which they didn't make back then, no smart pirate had a fleet of 5 Galleons) in 1708 when you can barely make 5th rates?

why have them at all if they are going to be impotent?

There is a difference between potent and overpowered.

If it's that much of a bother, navy seal into the islands and take em out, it isn't hard.

That's beside the point. Also sometimes I don't enjoy sending troops all the way there just to be intercepted and annilated by a 5 Galleon fleet.

[rubenandthejets]

I think pirates having galleons is understandable-they could have captured and repaired them.

I know how strong galleons are in the game, especially early on and that vanilla naval battles allow these square rigged, obsolete dreadnoughts to sail into the wind, for "game balance" or "playability".

I could believe a lot of weaker merchantmen (captured in battle) with the odd galleon and a lot of brigs and sloops, but yeah, finding 5 galleons or fluyts in one fleet would be pretty suprising....and enough for me to go back to Rome total war for a while.

[Graphic]

Galleons are their powerhouses and AFAIK that's the biggest they get. Remove them and they're totally gimped. Replace them with military vessels like the "rates" and they cease to be a pirate faction. They don't start with them anyway. If they end up having a really powerful fleet, it's your fault for not keeping them in check.

[antaeus]

i like them having galleons.

it allows me to obtain galleons when i'm playing as a faction which cant recruit them. they're excellent for guarding trade zones. in fact, i usually leave the pirate faction there on it's islands now, just so i can use them as a source of galleons. i just camp a navy of 4th rates near and grab them as they leave port - pirate the pirates so to speak.

[l33tl4m3r]

We've removed galleons and fluyts from the pirates in APE: TI -- they still start with 1 of each, though.

Pirates were far too strong with them before, so long as they were actually making them.

[Hunter Makoy]

Pirates traditionally never had anything like galleons though. Everything was built for speed and maneuverability. Pirates weren't out there to pick a fight with man-o-wars.

It'd be like a moonshine hauler using a Humvee.

[l33tl4m3r]

Pirates traditionally never had anything like galleons though. Everything was built for speed and maneuverability. Pirates weren't out there to pick a fight with man-o-wars.

It'd be like a moonshine hauler using a Humvee.

Well, technically -- the cars original moonshiners drove probably weighed more than a hummer! Haha!

Back on topic though; you are right about them not really using ships of those sizes -- few instances of pirates using 40+ guns like this one; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fancy_(ship).

They certainly shouldn't be able to build them and should rely more on capturing.

[Pink Beard]

The only way pirates could (or would) have acces to something as big like a galleon is just right after a mutiny on said ship.
But then the first thing they'd do is trade (as in either trade it with a corrupt merchant or steal another and ditch the galleon) it for something faster, a brig or a sloop for instance.
Pirates want speed, not firepower. What's the use of firepower when only people that are hunting you are going to fight you and the people your hunting are just fleeing away?
Bad thing. Pirates want to hunt down stuff and when the **** hits the fan they will want to be able to flee as fast as possible

[Hunter Makoy]

Well, technically -- the cars original moonshiners drove probably weighed more than a hummer! Haha!

Has to do with the speed advantage. NASCAR was basically founded by a bunch of ex moonshiners using their cars.

Back on topic though; you are right about them not really using ships of those sizes -- few instances of pirates using 40+ guns like this one; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fancy_(ship).

They certainly shouldn't be able to build them and should rely more on capturing.

I agree. For one thing if the British wanted to go after a pirate, not only would they have a very powerful ship, but they would usually have more then one. Not only that, but with men probably more experienced in that department then your typical sailor on a pirate ship.