Bundeswehr claims 56 dead insurgents in Kunduz airstrike

[Il-Principe]

According to a note of the Bundeswehr an airstrike in Kunduz area killed 56 Taliban. So far no civilian casualities have been reported. Apparently the Afghan police chief of the Ali Abad district in Kunduz disagrees and claims that civilians are among the victims.

The situation is a bit obscure. According to one report the taliban stole two fuel trucks with supplies for NATO troops. One truck got stuck and was detected by Bundeswehr intelligence. The Taliban called together the local village population for free fuel supply. Then an airstrike, the Bundeswehr has ordered, hit the truck and blew everything up. The number of casualities are disputed. Some figures run as high as 150.

You might check out some sources for further information:

in English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_airstrike
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp...7cQ1juXdIP1IWA

in German
http://www.bundeswehr.de/portal/a/bw...%2Fcontent.jsp

http://www.maerkischeallgemeine.de/c...ivilisten.html

http://www.stern.de/politik/bundeswe...e-1507130.html

[Amry]

Well, from the Wikipedia link:

The strike occured as villagers gathered to collect fuel from the tankers

It's a bit of a stretch to see how civilians aren't among the dead.

And how do you know if someone is an "insurgent" in Afghanistan? I mean, it's one thing if the guy is shooting at you, but in situations like these, when the smoke clears away and we have a lot of dead bodies lying around, how can we tell that a person is either an "insurgent", or just "some guy in the wrong place and time"? After all, in Afghanistan gun culture is quite strong, so just because someone carries around a rusty AK doesn't mean he's fighting anyone.

[Каие]

I heard most of the dead are civilians. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8238714.stm

[Jaketh]

I heard most of the dead are civilians. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8238714.stm

its extremely hard to weed out the bad guys from the civilians, the only way to completely take them out is to kill everyone, but thats not gonna happen

[Last Roman]

its extremely hard to weed out the bad guys from the civilians, the only way to completely take them out is to kill everyone, but thats not gonna happen

you seem saddened by that.

[Otherside]

its extremely hard to weed out the bad guys from the civilians, the only way to completely take them out is to kill everyone, but thats not gonna happen

you say that but i spoke to my best friend who just came back from Afghan yesterday he said in the middle of that hell hole when shots are coming at you, you dont check twice if they have a gun or not, he certainly seems to believe their have been civilian casualties where hes been its war i guess.

[Thorn777]

Since when does it take 56 people at least to hijack two trucks? And since when do we know who's Taliban that quickly in these types of situations?

Me thinks, the Budeswehr trigger-finger is getting itchy.

[Farnan]

Since when does it take 56 people at least to hijack two trucks? And since when do we know who's Taliban that quickly in these types of situations?

Usually trucks don't travel alone so you know in Afghanistan. They usually have something called guards.

[Thorn777]

Usually trucks don't travel alone so you know in Afghanistan. They usually have something called guards.

Sure, but usually Taliban dont attack armed convoys to hijack two trucks.

Also I heard nothing of a fight before they got their hands on them, and German sources call these trucks " hijacked civil trucks to be used for a suicide attack". Kinda strange when 250 civilians surrounded the trucks at the time of the attack, including many children.

This looks more like GTA Afghanistan.

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...647081,00.html

[Farnan]

Sure, but usually Taliban dont attack armed convoys to hijack two trucks.

Also I heard nothing of a fight before they got their hands on them, and German sources call these trucks " hijacked civil trucks to be used for a suicide attack".

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/auslan...647081,00.html

Yea, likely had private security. And even if they didn't the Taliban would not know that. Further they are not going to drive to random village one and off load, so they likely had guards on them when they got to the village.

Not saying that all 56 were Taliban and it may have been more civilians dead then Taliban, but its not outrageous to think there would be 56 Taliban.

[Thorn777]

Yea, likely had private security. And even if they didn't the Taliban would not know that. Further they are not going to drive to random village one and off load, so they likely had guards on them when they got to the village.

Not saying that all 56 were Taliban and it may have been more civilians dead then Taliban, but its not outrageous to think there would be 56 Taliban.

I dont know, all still seems very strange to say the least.

[Lost Sultan]

Facking nazis...

[RomanSoldier9001]

Facking nazis...

That was a desnessary comment.

[Boyar Son]

Wehrmacht didn't do it so it's not as cool as it would be.

[JP226]

Who actually dropped the bombs? I've been looking online and haven't found a finger poiting in any direction. If it were the US i'm sure we'd see "American" plastered everywhere, but we don't. So was it Herman the German or some other country?

[danzig]

Who actually dropped the bombs? I've been looking online and haven't found a finger poiting in any direction. If it were the US i'm sure we'd see "American" plastered everywhere, but we don't. So was it Herman the German or some other country?

Come on you know how it goes, even when it is an ISAF mission if its american planes is always pointed out in the article but if its non american it is just NATO...so it was probably someone other then us

Typical Western Trigger Happy People. They should leave and never return. Ban all oil and gas supplies to them.

And typical response but by all means cut off oil and gas supplies then you will indeed get your crusade that you think is going on since it would be a direct threat to surival of western nations. So methinks take your money for oil/gas, invest it wisely while it lasts and hush. And thanks but no arent going to leave so trash from your country can spill over onto the border again, probably with funds from your intelligence service to make them leave you guys alone making Afganistan an even greater hell hole.

[mrmouth]

I am hearing that there were no civilians in the area, and the Taliban body count is lower. And the source is solid.

NATO was searching/tracking with a UAV, two French or German attack choppers, and an SBS recon team on ATV's, who were diverted from another mission on the border. The SBS team actually glassed the trucks, where local Taliban had gathered, and the Germans signed off, deeming it a legitimate target. Choppers did a few runs, before taking fire and leaving the area, and then two F-15's were guided in. SBS did an initial BDA, and remained in the area until ANA arrived.


The actual story here, that wont be reported, is that earlier in the year, the US had met with every single important tribal leader in Afghanistan, in hopes of making it clear that they should relate the importance of not mingling with the Taliban, to their people, if they can prevent doing so. Obviously it is hard to be judgmental of people who might have been taking advantage of situation, but we have related that it is open season on the Taliban. We also drop leaflets frequently.

[Tajir]

Taliban dont travel in groups of more than 50 typically, for their style of fighting Id say they travel in much less numbers, this is guerrilla war, lets not forget. They dont travel so deep because of things like this where bombs take out large groups of people at a time. These guys fought the Soviets or have family and friends who did so, and they arent new to this game, Afghans have been doing it forever. And in a mission like this, they would just send a tiny group of operatives for it.

[Farnan]

Taliban dont travel in groups of more than 50 typically, for their style of fighting Id say they travel in much less numbers, this is guerrilla war, lets not forget. They dont travel so deep because of things like this where bombs take out large groups of people at a time. These guys fought the Soviets or have family and friends who did so, and they arent new to this game, Afghans have been doing it forever. And in a mission like this, they would just send a tiny group of operatives for it.

Actually they do travel in that large of groups consistently. Its required for an effective fighting against platoon sized (30-40 man) ISAF patrols. They also form larger groups, and have formed forced in the thousands at times (I think the Kandahar Offensive against the ISAF had that large of a group, I know they had at least a thousand at Anaconda). As you said they've been doing this for a while, and they know tiny units don't have much effect on operations and are too small to be effective.

Also, despite tactical proficiency of the Taliban (they are very deadly ambushers, and have good snipers), one of their weaknesses is in their strategic movement, which isn't very tactical. They are known to travel along main roads in large groups which enable them to be hurt from the air.

[Captain Jin]

Taliban dont travel in groups of more than 50 typically, for their style of fighting Id say they travel in much less numbers, this is guerrilla war, lets not forget. They dont travel so deep because of things like this where bombs take out large groups of people at a time. These guys fought the Soviets or have family and friends who did so, and they arent new to this game, Afghans have been doing it forever. And in a mission like this, they would just send a tiny group of operatives for it.

Completely untrue. They often travel in groups that large and even larger, as they never attack ISAF or American troops unless they have great numerical superiority.