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  1. #1
    Jexiel's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default The US National Debt Is Not Important

    According to Conor Clarke writing for Slate.com. The claim is that as long as we continue making technological improvements the future will enjoy a better standard of living than the present. Let me hear your opinions on this one.

    http://www.slate.com/id/2227091/

    Quote Originally Posted by Conor Clarke writing for Slate.com
    Nothing brings out the Republican Party's concern for children like the national debt. Last week, when the White House increased its 10-year deficit projection by $2 trillion, some members of the GOP shifted from discussing the threat Obama's health reforms pose to the elderly to warning of the dangers his spending poses to the young. "We must proceed with extreme caution before putting in place a huge and costly new program that will threaten our economy and the future of our children," said Sen. Judd Gregg of New Hampshire. House Minority Leader John Boehner greeted the news with an equally protective sentiment: "The Democrats' out-of-control spending binge is burying our children and grandchildren under a mountain of unsustainable debt."

    Such worries have an honorable political lineage. What kind of policymaker could be against children? Sure, it's all well and good to debate the size and meaning of the federal debt. But can anyone seriously question that we are imposing an ever-increasing and unfair burden on the children who might be ill-equipped to bear the cost?

    Well, yes. There is a good, simple reason for taking a more selfish view of the cost our present debt imposes on future Americans: All else being equal, those future Americans will be leading better, easier, richer lives. So just as there are good arguments for imposing costs on the present-day rich for the benefit of the present-day poor, there are good arguments for imposing costs on America's wealthy future for the sake of its relatively impoverished present.

    The main reason that the future should be better off is staring at you from the light-emitting diodes in the back of your screen: improvements in technology. Markets crash and deficits rise, but through it all, improving technology has continued to tempt us with an ever-expanding array of consumption options. Even if the value of your house has declined, the number of things you can do on your phone probably hasn't.

    Nor are the benefits of increased productivity limited to personal technology. One example: It is far easier to find information, organize it appropriately and send it all to a colleague (or an editor) than it was five or 10 or 20 years ago. Over the past 60 years, the country's private-sector "multifactor productivity"—which measures output based on a combination of inputs (like labor and capital) and is our closest measure of the impact of technology on productivity—has increased at an average rate of 1.4 percent annually. Even during the most unproductive stretch in recent American history, between 1973 and '90, multifactor productivity still increased (by 0.6 percent annually).

    This is not to say that the gains of additional technology are always distributed evenly. But improvements in technology do increase the size of the pie. Technological improvements decrease the amount of time it takes to accomplish tasks and leave open additional hours to earn more income or enjoy more leisure. And even if you believe that many of these innovations are also powerful tools of procrastination—and I do—at least appreciate that you have more time to fritter away.

    Still, the question lingers: Is it possible that more debt will result in less innovation? There is little reason to expect it to. It's certainly true that the pace of technological improvement is affected by other variables in the economy, and it's vaguely plausible to imagine that one such factor might be the size of the national debt. (The argument would go like this: Today's debt is tomorrow's tax—someone's got to pay for it, after all—and one effect of higher taxes might be a reduced incentive, or less capital, to invent fabulous new technologies.) But the relationship between technological improvement and other economic variables is not well-understood (in the most common long-run growth model it is an "exogenous" variable—determined by forces outside the model).

    And there is no evidence that debt and taxes have had a particularly profound impact on American innovation. Some of the greatest years for technological improvement in the 20th century—the late 1940s and early '50s—were years of debt and taxes high enough to make John Boehner run for cover under the budget estimates of today.

    And even if technology improves less rapidly in the future, it's hard to imagine our level of technology actually falling. There are some quirky historical examples of societies actually losing expertise—the disappearance of gunsmithing in ancient Japan, perhaps, or the accumulated wisdom of the Roman Empire. But it is rare. The level of technology in the economy isn't the physical accumulation of vehicles and factories and tools, which wear out after extended use. And it's not like the size of the labor force, the growth of which waxes and wanes from generation to generation. It's the knowledge of how to squeeze more stuff out of less time. The technological wizardry for building an iPhone or an intercontinental ballistic missile cannot be easily whisked away by the sands of history.

    Is that past performance indicative of future success? Perhaps not. Perhaps we could find ourselves in a dystopian second dark age, in which the previously expanding chain of shared human knowledge is severed. This is the basis for many fine science fiction novels. But if a benighted dystopia is in our future, our children have an awful lot more to worry about than the national debt.
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  2. #2
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The US National Debt Is Not Important

    I think the idea is sound: in the future people of equal wealth will almost certainly have better standards of livings, so it does make sense to "spread out the wealth" a bit by creating debts today and have future people pay them back.

    But there is a limit.
    If, say, you take on 100 years worth of GDP in debts, then future people will probably be worst off than today's people regardless of technological improvements.
    The question is: which side of the balance is America currently at?

    Also: taking a debt doesn't "create" wealth.
    The standard of living in America might improve, but it must be coming from somewhere else.
    Specifically, the Chinese people of today work very hard for very little pay to give Americans all sorts of goods on credit.
    The future Chinese will profit from this, but they will probably have a better life anyways.

    Finally: shouldn't people wish a better life for their children than they have themselves?
    I feels somehow wrong to use your childrens future earnings for your own benefit.
    It might make mathematical sense, but it doesn't make human sense,



  3. #3
    Civis
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    Default Re: The US National Debt Is Not Important

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Also: taking a debt doesn't "create" wealth.
    The standard of living in America might improve, but it must be coming from somewhere else.
    Specifically, the Chinese people of today work very hard for very little pay to give Americans all sorts of goods on credit.
    The future Chinese will profit from this, but they will probably have a better life anyways.

    Finally: shouldn't people wish a better life for their children than they have themselves?
    I feels somehow wrong to use your childrens future earnings for your own benefit.
    It might make mathematical sense, but it doesn't make human sense,
    i think erik did a pretty good job explaining it. also This guy seems to look at history in broad brush strokes and have mysterious forsight into the future, how does he know in 100 years we aren't back in the darkages (nuclear war, climate disaster etc) or on a serious note when moore's law breaks in 10 years.
    how to fit in on twc:
    1. constantly complain about etw, 2.talk about the good ol days of m2tw, 3.constantly complain about etw, 4.complain about too few buttons on soldiers in Ntw screenshots, 5.constantly complain about etw, 6.use wikipedia to find historical inaccuracies then pretend you have a degree in history, 7.use wikipedia to debate unquantifiable things such as "who was better saracens or aztecs, napoleon or alexander", 8.post so many times in a thread that it eventually becomes either offtopic or so intricate nobody understands, 9. alway remember that sega and CA are evil, corrupt, idiotic, greedy, whiney, corporations and they used to be kind, pure, intelligent, hardworking people who loved their fans.

  4. #4
    Maca's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: The US National Debt Is Not Important

    The thing that I see about saying that debt isn't important because of technological advances is not being able to afford to use these advances. Research and implimenting new technologies is a costly thing, and if the places that discover them don't have the money to use them, then these advances might be lost.

    This is just my opinion, so feel free to critisise, I'm not too sure that i know what i'm talking about myself.

  5. #5

    Default Re: The US National Debt Is Not Important

    Quote Originally Posted by Romanman View Post
    i think erik did a pretty good job explaining it. also This guy seems to look at history in broad brush strokes and have mysterious forsight into the future, how does he know in 100 years we aren't back in the darkages (nuclear war, climate disaster etc) or on a serious note when moore's law breaks in 10 years.
    The whole point is that we find technological advancements .
    Anyway i disagree with his point, the people of the future wont neccasarily lead comftorable lives, maybe with more technology, but they might have to work five times as hard to get any of it, playing with fire (debt) is always a bad idea.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The US National Debt Is Not Important

    How does one get to those tech advances that improve quality of life if one cant afford it? Its like saying Im gonna retire at 60 on a nice island in the Caribbean and then not bothering to any necessary steps (like saving money) to achieve that goal. So the article imo is simplistic nonsense that just assumes in the future things will always progress rather then regress. Of course the article also ignores geopolitical nature of it all, right now US and China hold a rather tight symbiotic relationship what happens if in the future this isnt the case.

  7. #7

    Default Re: The US National Debt Is Not Important

    We're $12 trillion in debt. It is going to take decades to pay it off. As long as the US expenditures are larger than the income, we will continue to plunge deeper into it. We should worry about it, but I doubt we could even put a dent into it.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The US National Debt Is Not Important

    I somehow agree with Conor Clarke of what he said but how can we posses a very high technology when we couldn't even solve our national debt? It is important for us a citizen that we should be concerned about this. We could think about the future anytime but we MUST act now for the present.

    Our government balance the federal budget and come to an agreement regarding the debt ceiling, the threat of national debt default has many perplexed. Political wrangling over the nationwide debt and the debt ceiling is sending a message many Americans do not want to hear. Conventional wisdom states that China is the solution to the question of “Who owns The United States?”, and that default will place the United States too far behind. Yet as an enlightening report by Business Insider points out, conventional wisdom concerning who owns America is wrong. China has a major stake, but much like in Japan, most of United States debt is nationally held. I found this here: Your financial upside-down cake: China does not own America

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