After proving the existance of god

[Daeger]

So.. assuming we could somehow prove scientifically that there is a god. What then?

We'd know there is a god, but it wouldn't prove any religion right. All we'd know, is that there is a god, not what kind of god. Would this cause every major monotheistic religion go ape all over the other religions? What exactly would happen.

[Arch-hereticK]

I don't think anything would happen, all religions would just continue thinking they're right.
Probably the only change would be the people caught in the limbo of atheism would become theists and anti-theists would become atheist, lol.

But the definition of theism would be obsolete, only gnosticism would be applicable to gauge the gradient of "knowledge".

You're last sentence doesn't make proper sense, you claim to be an agnostic-theist(don't know but believe that there is a God) and you say you can't be wrong. But then you say atheists and theists(you're belief) could be wrong. I'm sure you meant only anti-theists and theists could be wrong.

[Daeger]

You're last sentence doesn't make proper sense, you claim to be an agnostic-theist(don't know but believe that there is a God) and you say you can't be wrong. But then you say atheists and theists(you're belief) could be wrong. I'm sure you meant only anti-theists and theists could be wrong.

What I meant to say is, that if we ever proved god is real, agnostic theists would get the answer to the only question there is to god. Does he exist or not.

Atheists would be proven wrong and theists would now wonder, what god is like or whose god is it etc.

Of course, everyone would propably think what god is like, but agnostic belief doesn't depend on that question, but every religion does.

[Arch-hereticK]

Ok, 3 problems there.

First atheism can't be proven wrong. As everyone with a modern dictionary will know A means without, theism is a belief in a god. It's not a belief, it is between theism and anti-theism; anti is greek for against.

Second Agnostic means you don't know, it is not a belief. A means without and gnostic means a knowledge of a god. So everyone without a major mental health condition is agnostic, it's almost pointless to label yourself as one.

Thirdly if God was proven and you knew it you could neither be a theist or an agnostic because you would be a gnostic and can't be an agnostic. If you have knowledge of God, theism would be an obsolete term as there would be no need for belief, there would be knowledge.

[Poach]

So everyone without a major mental health condition is agnostic.

So the seriously mentally ill are actually giving us the word of God in their ramblings?

[Arch-hereticK]

So the seriously mentally ill are actually giving us the word of God in their ramblings?

It's a possibility. Or maybe they're just crazy and think they hear the word of God. Either way the only way a human being can hear words in their head due to schneider's first rank symptoms of schizophrenia.

But I'm sure our learned christian friends have evidence to the contrary.

[Tankbuster]

Ok, 3 problems there.

Yes indeed.

First atheism can't be proven wrong. As everyone with a modern dictionary will know A means without, theism is a belief in a god. It's not a belief, it is between theism and anti-theism; anti is greek for against.

Atheism means being without a belief. So an atheist might not be able to be proven 'wrong', but you could still convince the atheist to have a belief. Most atheist's beliefs are falsifiable.

Second Agnostic means you don't know, it is not a belief. A means without and gnostic means a knowledge of a god. So everyone without a major mental health condition is agnostic, it's almost pointless to label yourself as one.

Agnosticism doesn't mean that you don't know, it means that you can't know.
Someone who doesn't know whether there is a God or not but is still unconvinced, is an atheist. Like me.

Thirdly if God was proven and you knew it you could neither be a theist or an agnostic because you would be a gnostic and can't be an agnostic. If you have knowledge of God, theism would be an obsolete term as there would be no need for belief, there would be knowledge.

No, you'd be a gnostic theist. Many theists already claim to 'know' that there is a God. There would just be more gnostic theists then.

It seems that you're a bit confused about things.

[Arch-hereticK]

Yes indeed.

Atheism means being without a belief. So an atheist might not be able to be proven 'wrong', but you could still convince the atheist to have a belief. Most atheist's beliefs are falsifiable.


Agnosticism doesn't mean that you don't know, it means that you can't know.
Someone who doesn't know whether there is a God or not but is still unconvinced, is an atheist. Like me.

No, you'd be a gnostic theist. Many theists already claim to 'know' that there is a God. There would just be more gnostic theists then.

It seems that you're a bit confused about things.

Oxford dictionary

Agnostic


/agnostik/
• noun a person who believes that nothing is known concerning the existence of God.
• adjective relating to agnostics. — DERIVATIVES agnosticism noun.

You are right, theism would still exist even after proof. I was really only trying to say that it would become an obsolete label.

I never said that atheist's beliefs were unfalsifiable, that be a crazy thing to say. I said atheism(being a single position on a single topic) would be unfalsifiable. And yes an atheist could be convinced to believe one way or another, but that's different than falsifyng the original position.

[Poach]

I'd assume that once we had proven God to exist, we'd begin attempts to contact the being. When eventually this bears fruit, we'll find out which religion, if any, got it right.

[Strelok]

When eventually this bears fruit, we'll find out which religion, if any, got it right.

How would we do this? Pray to every god of every Religion until our prayers get answered by a big loud voice?

[Sumonious]

How would we do this? Pray to every god of every Religion until our prayers get answered by a big loud voice?

Lol, I imagine his first reply will be something like "STFO I try to sleep" .

[Gaidin]

How would we do this? Pray to every god of every Religion until our prayers get answered by a big loud voice?

Qualities, abilities, and defintions of any given god are defined by the religion. Once we prove that a god exists, he has to have a baseline of these qualities, abilities, and definitions that we got from any given religion. The religion we got them from, that is the true religion.

[Poach]

Interesting plan TheAnonymous! I'm working under the idea that the only way to prove God exists is by either a prophet emerging and demonstrating beyond refute that he has been sent by God (thus we can ask the prophet) or by finding God somewhere in existence, in which case we'd send messages/spacecraft/diggers/etc to where ever he is located.

[Tigrul]

You seem not to understand what words you're spinning there.

Theism has NOTHING to do with religion. You can be an irreligious theist, just as you can be a religious atheist. If god exists, then ALL theists would be right about the question of whether there is or isn't a form of divinity.

Agnosticism is the belief that humans can never know whether god exists or not. If we ever found out that god existed, all agnostics would be wrong. To claim not knowing is not to be an agnostic.

I also claim that I don't know whether god exists or not, and I believe neither that She exists, nor that She doesn't. I am a weak atheist. I wouldn't be wrong either way, because I haven't made any statements to begin with. I am an atheist because I haven't yet been presented with good enough reasons to be a theist. I am not a strong atheist because I haven't been presented with good enough reason to believe that no god exists. (some gods can't exist, as chriscase argued in a different topic, but there's a long way to proving the same for all gods)

[Dead Sun]

Apart from the names of God, is there any major difference between the moral guidelines of religions?

[Dead Sun]

Perhaps Jesus was an extremely lucky schizophrenic. Who knows? Perhaps the Bible is a fantasy novel written for the authors daughter. How can we know? Does the fact that the Bible (summed up) is about a Jewish zombie trying to talk to someone who may, or may not, be there and convincing twelve people that he is there, then swiftly jumping off a cliff, make the first two questions any easier?

[Ummon]

So.. assuming we could somehow prove scientifically that there is a god. What then?

You would be sure that you made a mistake somewhere.

[Daeger]

If you can prove God then he is not God.

If you base your faith simply on "being able to say I was right" you're doing it for the wrong reasons. =/

There is no right or wrong reason to believe in something, there's only logical and illogical reasons.

Also, being able to prove gods existance doesn't make god less of a god. It would make him a god that doesn't fit your definition of god, which would be "a god that can't be proven".

You would be sure that you made a mistake somewhere.

I wouldn't have made a mistake anywhere. I doubt gods existance, but believe he is likely to exist and the god I believe exists is unknown to us. Note that I did not mean god as in christian god or any other god. The god we would have hypotethically proven, could be any god or none of them.

Edit: To the above post, the world around us is a prove of many things, but it does not prove christian god or any other god. You are, again, making claims, based on a book with baseless claims. No. Bible does not prove anything, it makes claims. Bible claims that god said there is only one faith, god etc... Just because a book says so, it doesn't make it so.

This little planet of ours proves many things regarding the theories of our origin that involve no god. It may not prove those theories right, but it supports them more than it supports god. Even if this planet and all the life here were created by the laws of physics, chemistry and all that, it doesn't mean god can't exist, it only means that god had nothing to do with us coming to existance. Maybe god focuses on the bigger picture and not on lowly life forms like us.

Thanks for Tankbuster, Tigrul and the rest for clearing me up on those terms. They still confuse me more than enough, though.

[basics]

" To the above post, the world around us is a prove of many things, but it does not prove christian god or any other god. You are, again, making claims, based on a book with baseless claims. No. Bible does not prove anything, it makes claims. Bible claims that god said there is only one faith, god etc... Just because a book says so, it doesn't make it so."

Daeger,

Again you say these things but based on what? The answer to that it seems to me is that the power contained within has never been your experience and that being the case how can you say what you do? Far more than we could number have tasted the reality behind that book and although it has not delivered for you, as of yet, for there is still time, it might well just happen. Then you will say what others before you said rather than what you believe at this minute.

[Daeger]

You run into an impossibility with your thread scenario then because, due to the universe's size approaching infinity as far as checking every damn thing is concerned, we cannot discuss the scenario as the existence of god has not been proven.

Checking every damn thing isn't impossible, we can do that even though, it is extremely highly unlikely that we do check every damn thing..

" To the above post, the world around us is a prove of many things, but it does not prove christian god or any other god. You are, again, making claims, based on a book with baseless claims. No. Bible does not prove anything, it makes claims. Bible claims that god said there is only one faith, god etc... Just because a book says so, it doesn't make it so."
Daeger,

Again you say these things but based on what? The answer to that it seems to me is that the power contained within has never been your experience and that being the case how can you say what you do? Far more than we could number have tasted the reality behind that book and although it has not delivered for you, as of yet, for there is still time, it might well just happen. Then you will say what others before you said rather than what you believe at this minute.

I must say, I'm a bit too drunk to say anything about this, but other than that I believe it is too unlikely that bible is right. I can't believe that bible is right, because my own logical mind says it is unlikely that is right. I'd love to have a god that wanted me to have a good life, but bible god is not that god.

I won't write more than this because.. well.. .. my head is spinning and I have to go to a hospital because of a burnt tissue issue on my toe. Why the hell am I writing this here anyways? Dunno, but I am...