Question(s?) about Christianity

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

Well, I'm no Christian by a long shot. I used to go to Church. One thing I never got though back in ye old Sunday School.. was the Old Testament. Does it serve a purpose other than a 'opener' and double deal of two for one?

Did Christs death nullify the old testament completely? Like.. is it basically pointless other than what I said above? I'm just curious because people like to use the old part a lot for arguments on what penis should go into what orifice and the like. I thought the New Testament was to be the new deal by Christ and so that everyone was all happy and tolerant and stuff.

[Elrond]

Well, I'm no Christian by a long shot. I used to go to Church. One thing I never got though back in ye old Sunday School.. was the Old Testament. Does it serve a purpose other than a 'opener' and double deal of two for one?

Did Christs death nullify the old testament completely? Like.. is it basically pointless other than what I said above? I'm just curious because people like to use the old part a lot for arguments on what penis should go into what orifice and the like. I thought the New Testament was to be the new deal by Christ and so that everyone was all happy and tolerant and stuff.

I am not sure as about other denominations but Anglicans are supposed to follow the moral teachings of the old testament e.g. don't sleep with your brothers wife etc but ignore the punishments e.g. stoning and ignore specifically Jewish customs e.g. not eating pork. Basically Christians should listen to the old testament but concentrate more on the new testament.

All the harsh stuff in the old testament should be implemented using the love thy neighbour rule - which is in Leviticus (people usually forget that when criticising the rest of the book).

I am sure someone else can explain it better.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Well, I'm no Christian by a long shot. I used to go to Church. One thing I never got though back in ye old Sunday School.. was the Old Testament. Does it serve a purpose other than a 'opener' and double deal of two for one?

Did Christs death nullify the old testament completely? Like.. is it basically pointless other than what I said above? I'm just curious because people like to use the old part a lot for arguments on what penis should go into what orifice and the like. I thought the New Testament was to be the new deal by Christ and so that everyone was all happy and tolerant and stuff.

God's morality never changes. So a moral command is still in force just like it was then. As far as legal commands (concerning judges and punishments and such), I think those should also be used today, although they would probably have to be adapted to a different culture and time-period slightly.

The ceremonial commands have been done away with, since they were/are fulfilled in Christ, who is the mediator of the new covenant and the high priest of the order of Melchizedek. Most have a spiritual component and symbolism that are still in force, however, since they have to do with morality.

[Poach]

Old school christians, the stricter types, tend to follow the old testament to various degrees. The new, all loving all caring christianity, tends to ignore it completely because it isn't politically correct.

[Tacitursa]

I have a question.

If god is the all forgiving mercifull one.

Why do we have to live a very limited life of good behavour and morals in order to enter heaven?


Surely if i spend my life having sex , partying etc etc he will simply forgive me.


Also i beleive it says something along the lines of "All gays should burn in hell"

If god disagree's with homosexuality why did he create homosexual animals and humans? Wait let me guess , The devil did it right?

Laugh out loud what a crock of .

[basics]

" If god is the all forgiving mercifull one. Why do we have to live a very limited life of good behavour and morals in order to enter heaven?"

Wizav85,

It is because of these attributes that God does save some from themselves in order that they do get into heaven. If you consider that even with the tiniest morsel of sin on you you can't then that should tell you the requirements for heaven are beyond all men because of its Holiness.

Israel was chosen to be Holy but being inherent sinners they couldn't be apart from a few in each generation and even they weren't averse to falling. Despite all the sacrificing and the ceremonies that go with them most of Israel fell away never to be what was offered to them.

So why was that? The curse of sin and the Law made it impossible to work their own salvation. Neither did it work in the eyes of God who gave them the Law that they might live should they obey it. None could because their nature was all it took for the Law to condemn them, just as it does for all mankind.

The Law asks, nay demands, that sinners pay in blood for their sin. God made the Law according to His own righteousness so that being the case none can get into heaven unless the Law is unable to condemn any that seek that road. None can is the short answer. That is why God Himself in the Lord Jesus Christ came to this world if only to break the cycle.

So how can God break what He set up as the measure of getting into heaven? He surely cannot change His own nature to facilitate ours? And He doesn't because He can't being righteous but what He can do and has done without harming His own Law is to keep within its demands thus fulfilling these whilst at the same time save some.

He would supply the sacrifice that the Law demands and does so as a substitute for them that are of the elected to be saved. In other words He placed Himself as the Son made flesh on the cross of execution, not as Himself, rather all those that He would die for as their substitute, so that by His blood, it paid what the Law demanded on their behalf.

And when every drop of sin was washed away from each for whom He died in those hours of excruciating pain He cried out that it was finished and gave up His life. There isn't a word big enough to describe that wonderful love that even the smallest hint brings the strongest man to tears at the thought that this was done for them. The heart is cut to the marrow that God who knew no sin did that for me and others like me.

So when He died as our substitute so did we and that being the case the Law was incapable of finding anything in me and them like me to condemn. The curtain was torn in our case forever and we became children of God according to the promises given to Abraham, sons and daughters by adoption, priests and saints. The Law was satisfied, God was delighted and we were/are jubilant.

That is how Christians are made and made by and in the very same faith of Jesus Christ, that being that He would rise to glory and in time of calling us too. As for the Law, it stands. It is immutable so it must stand as long as men have to die being under the curse. What makes such a difference in our times is that there is so much false religion called by name only Christianity that make the commandments and the Law seem gone but they are not gone. They are very much alive and well.

Every single person not born again is still under both Law and sin. That they do not adhere to the commandments is proof of that. Does it make any difference to their final destination? Not one iota for sin is sin is sin. To me and them like me God is now my avenger so unless I give to Caesar what is his, I will not kill or offend the Law of God.

[Poach]

There are many contradictions in the Bible, and there's all sorts of ways around them such as "The Bible is not the literal word of God, you must interpret it" or "Jesus altered some of the older teachings to better fit the world" (so much for God being all knowing, even though he's never actually claimed to be as such in the Bible) etc. An interesting book, the Bible. Even more interesting when you try to marry it up to the religion that supposedly follows its every word, they don't quite fit together perfectly.

[MaximiIian]

Did Christs death nullify the old testament completely?

The main argument I've heard is that it nullified parts of it; i.e., the parts that were more culturally Jewish and not amenable to universality.
Boofhead went into detail about it once, IIRC.

I thought the New Testament was to be the new deal by Christ and so that everyone was all happy and tolerant and stuff.

Ha ha, no. If we take the Gospels as any kind of resource, it's clear that Jesus' ideas were apocalyptic and he saw himself as the only source of salvation in a world gone awry that was going to end "soon".
Not "happy and tolerant" by any means.

[boofhead]

God made a covenant with the Jews which was legalistic in nature in the Old Testament. It was legalistic in nature because their path to salvation was legalistic. This was for the Jews.

The New Covenant (Testament) is for both converted Jews and gentiles, wherein salvation is by faith, not mere legalism. So the Old Testament is very important for Christians, as it is still about God and man, but once you strip the legalism away you are left with the moral nature of God - this is what is applicable to Christians, rather than any specific Jewish customary law. The Old Testament moral laws still stand for the Christian.

Jesus said he didn't come to take away the law. And he didn't. The legalism still stands for unconverted Jews, and by this they will be judged. The morality also still stands for Christians.

The main argument I've heard is that it nullified parts of it; i.e., the parts that were more culturally Jewish and not amenable to universality.

Yes very much.

[nate895]

God made a covenant with the Jews which was legalistic in nature in the Old Testament. It was legalistic in nature because their path to salvation was legalistic. This was for the Jews.

The New Covenant (Testament) is for both converted Jews and gentiles, wherein salvation is by faith, not mere legalism. So the Old Testament is very important for Christians, as it is still about God and man, but once you strip the legalism away you are left with the moral nature of God - this is what is applicable to Christians, rather than any specific Jewish customary law. The Old Testament moral laws still stand for the Christian.

Jesus said he didn't come to take away the law. And he didn't. The legalism still stands for unconverted Jews, and by this they will be judged. The morality also still stands for Christians.



Yes very much.

I believe you misunderstand the purpose of the Old Covenant. All who have been saved are saved in Christ. The purpose of the Old Covenant was to foreshadow the coming Messiah promised in Genesis 3:15. Also, the Law was to show what a perfectly righteous person should behave and what people deserve for violating the Law of God.

As for the Law and the Old Testament, it is of continuing validity, with certain parts being fulfilled in Christ, and others revoked because the separation between Jew and Gentile is over. The punishments, as I earlier stated, are what you deserve for violating the Law of God, but humans cannot enforce the Law because we have all broken it and deserve to die and spend eternity separated from God. Luckily, God has sent a propitiation for the sins of His people (I'm a Calvinist).

As for the "If God is so loving, why doesn't he just forgive us," question, Everyone seems to forget God's infinite justness and holiness. He can't even look upon sin He is so holy. God isn't the great grandfather in the sky, who just loves us little people all just the same, He chooses who to forgive and how to His greater glory, not to our demands. The only way to get passed the Final Judgment is to be clothed with Christ. He didn't have to have it happen that way, He could have done away with us when Adam, our perfect representative, sinned. Luckily for us sinners, he offered a propitiation.

[Wolfgang von Zweibrücken]

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets" - Mat 5:17

Pretty clear. The [entire] Old Testament should be followed - short only the stoning bit. Why? Because the only OT tradition/command that Jesus openly rebuked was the act of stoning people to death (along with various Jewish superstitions and nonsense picked up during the Babylonian exile). Other than that it all counts.

That means Circumcision, not eating shellfish, carrion-birds, pigs or various other (obviously unclean) animals, not sleeping with a woman on her period, not sleeping with anyone who has slept with any of your male relatives, not sleeping with any of your relatives period, not sleeping with animals, not sleeping with men if you are a man, not creating hybrid plants or animals, this all still counts.

The list is admittedly exhaustive, but deceptively so as it is not hard to adhere to.

[Del Valle]

I think of it like this: the new testament is federal and the old is state law. You look to see if there are any laws in the new concerning you and if you can't find any, use the old. That's my own crazy rationalization.

[Monarchist]

One thing I'd love to know about Christianity is the explanation for perfection vs. evil. We are told that man was made in God's image, but man 'fell' when evil was introduced to him. However, if God is perfect and man was made in that perfect image, man should have been quite perfect. How can a perfect being so easily fall? Of course, that begs the question: if God is perfect in goodness and authority, how did Satan even begin to think of mutiny, let alone almost achieve it?

Christianity is confusing.

[nate895]

One thing I'd love to know about Christianity is the explanation for perfection vs. evil. We are told that man was made in God's image, but man 'fell' when evil was introduced to him. However, if God is perfect and man was made in that perfect image, man should have been quite perfect. How can a perfect being so easily fall? Of course, that begs the question: if God is perfect in goodness and authority, how did Satan even begin to think of mutiny, let alone almost achieve it?

Christianity is confusing.

We are created in God's image in the sense that we are logical, rational beings who are capable of making moral judgments. God created man with the capability to do evil, and permitted our fall so that He may further demonstrate His glorious grace, justice, and holiness. The only way things happen is if God permits them to happen, but that does not mean that He is responsible or others don't have a will, but that God has ordained the actions of created beings to achieve His good aims. The actions that creatures are responsible for might be evil, but God changes evil actions to His greater purpose.