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    Default Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

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    With bipartisan efforts to pass a health care bill sputtering, Democrats are increasingly looking at Plan B: a politically risky, last-ditch “nuclear option’’ designed to ram their proposals through over the objections of the other party.

    Senate Democrats are still hoping they can forge a compromise with moderate Republicans and avoid a dramatic showdown after Congress ends its summer recess and resumes its work. But that appears to be less likely. Key GOP negotiators in the Senate are rapidly distancing themselves from Democratic proposals, and the GOP this week renewed its push to convince Americans that sweeping change is not needed.

    That means Democrats may soon decide to go it alone, employing a somewhat rare parliamentary tactic called “reconciliation.’’

    Typically, the majority party in the Senate needs 60 votes to end debate and block a minority filibus ter. But in the current debate, Democrats have only 59 members because of the death last week of Massachusetts Senator Edward M. Kennedy; moreover, a handful of moderate Democrats might not support health care legislation without at least some Republicans on board.

    So Democratic leaders are discussing the possibility of passing a Senate bill with a simple majority, or 51 votes, under the reconciliation rule.

    Meant to allow important budget bills to move through the chamber more easily, the procedure has been invoked only occasionally - by Republicans to pass tax cuts in 2003, for example, and by Democrats to pass President Clinton’s budget in 1993.

    Under reconciliation, each provision must be directly related to the budget, greatly complicating the task of passing health care overhaul rules, while opening up debate to intense procedural wrangling. Still, for Democrats, it might be better than risking a crippling defeat for Obama on a signature issue.

    “I think the Democrats are willing to risk it,’’ said Ross Baker, a political scientist at Rutgers University. “The stakes are just too high. The idea of ending the 111th Congress without any result on health care at all is unthinkable for the Democrats.’’

    A senior Democratic aide who spoke anonymously to offer a candid assessment of the strategy said: “The goal is not to have to do reconciliation - the goal is to garner 60 votes, hopefully in a bipartisan fashion. But the reality is you may have to.’’

    Senate Finance Committee chairman Max Baucus, a key Democratic negotiator on health care, told the Associated Press this week in Montana that chances for bipartisan reform remain good. But he said of his GOP colleagues, “Politics have crept in. They are being told by the Republican Party not to participate.’’

    If negotiations fall apart, added Baucus, Democrats will resort to the “nuclear option’’ of trying to pass legislation without Republicans, using the special rules.


    Passing a partisan health care bill is unappealing for Democrats because it promises to be politically dangerous and procedurally messy. After a furious conservative backlash against a health overhaul this summer, moderate Democrats are desperate for even a few Republicans to lend their support.

    Republicans would consider the use of reconciliation a declaration of war, and they’re warning that any attempt to do so would mean political devastation for the majority party. “I think that would wreck our health care system and wreck the Democratic Party if they did that,’’ said Senator Lamar Alexander, a Republican from Tennessee, in a conference call with reporters yesterday.

    Alexander said that Democrats have been going about solving major problems such as health care, climate change, and economic reforms all wrong by attempting comprehensive rather than gradual change and that the White House has not engaged in a credible attempt to reach across the aisle.

    “Either the White House doesn’t know how to do it, or they don’t want to do it,’’ he said.

    As they warn against Democrats trying to push health care without getting 60 votes, they also are working to turn public opinion against change.

    The Republican Party is airing a new TV spot, featuring party chairman Michael Steele calling for a “seniors’ bill of rights,’’ a call designed to warn the elderly about Obama’s health care overhaul proposals. In the ad, he calls for “no cuts to Medicare to pay for another program. Zero.’’ He also declares that the government should “make it illegal to ration health care based on age’’ and “prevent any government role in end-of-life care.’’

    The White House, afraid of repeating the mistakes that Clinton made 16 years ago, has left the bill-writing to Congress. Three House committees and one Senate committee have passed bills, based on Democratic majorities. But only one committee - the Senate Finance Committee - has seriously attempted a bipartisan discussion.

    In the last several months, Baucus has worked assiduously to reach consensus with what’s become known as the “Gang of Six’’ - two other Democrats, Senators Kent Conrad of North Dakota and Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico, and Republicans Mike Enzi of Wyoming, Chuck Grassley of Iowa, and Olympia Snowe of Maine.

    Over the course of the negotiations, Baucus has repeatedly moved deadlines at the Republicans’ request, and at their urging he has embraced increasingly moderate positions on key issues, such as the creation of private nonprofit cooperative insurance plans instead of a government-run option.

    But during the August recess, as grass-roots anger fueled by conservative groups and the GOP has grown, Enzi and Grassley have appeared to waver. Enzi, in delivering the Republican radio address last weekend, criticized Democratic health care plans without uttering a word about the bipartisan talks.

    On Monday, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said that Enzi “has clearly turned over his cards on bipartisanship.’’ If the partisan fights continue to escalate next week, Obama and Senate majority leader Harry Reid will come under greater pressure from liberal Democrats to dispense with their effort to forge a filibuster-proof Senate deal and push through a bill using the special rules.

    “I think that every effort will be made to get to 60, and if it appears that it’s going to be difficult, or the leadership can’t get to 60, then they will focus on a reconciliation strategy,’’ said Ron Pollack, director of Families USA, a Washington healthcare advocacy group.
    For you lazy people, here is a basic summary of the article. So far, the Republicans have been next to useless in helping form a bipartisan bill from the original rough draft in circulation atm, while the Dems want to actually get something done here before 2015. As a result, there is some talk about using "special rules" that can allow them to pass a bill with only 51 votes instead of 60, called "reconciliation". The requirement to pass a bill this way is that it has to be somehow tied to the federal budget, which is a little tricky but not impossible. Reconciliation has been used before in Clinton's 1993 budget, and Bush's 2003 tax cuts.

    I think this is a good idea, although it is not the favorable one. So far, most of the opposition has been extremely immature and unwilling to make a bipartisan effort in drafting a bill that does provide comprehensive reform. Instead, they have been stooping to kintergarten "mob mentality" playground rules where shouting the most clever slogans like "Obamacare" (btw he has had nothing to do with the writing of the bill), or "Commiecare" (is it still 1950?), or even the infamous "death panels" (wtf?). How is this going to get anything done at all? We can all agree that there needs to be some sort of healthcare reform. Almost everyone I've talked to, on both sides of the debate, can at least agree on this point. Costs are going up at an uncontrollable rate and financially crippling us. If they republicans (talking about the constituents here, not the politicians. All of them could care less IMO) really want reform, they need to come to the table like grown ups and have a serious conversation about how we can fix this. The plan as it stands right now is not the reform we need. It's a good start, but not perfect. If the republicans don't come forward and work this stuff out, the dems might force this through regardless, which is definitely not the best solution.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Republicans raise the ante in a bluff.

    Dems...time to call.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Republicans go out of their way to not be bi-partisan.

    Big whoop de doo

    Color me shocked

  4. #4
    Tominokar's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    The only thing Republicans seem to care about is making Obama look bad so they can win the next election. They're scared his promised health reforms might actually work, which after all this 'pure evil commie socialism' shite would make them look incredibly stupid.


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  5. #5

    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    the only people to blame for this failed heath care reform are the democrats.
    They have gone out of their way to just completely opposing or ruining any meaningful reform.
    hth

  6. #6

    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Excellent.

    That way there is only one party to blame when it implodes.

    2010...tick...tick...tick...
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Excellent.

    That way there is only one party to blame when it implodes.

    2010...tick...tick...tick...
    Your country survived a massive recession and a massive national debt build-up over the years.


    I think it's going to survive free healthcare as well.
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  8. #8
    MathiasOfAthens's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Excellent.

    That way there is only one party to blame when it implodes.

    2010...tick...tick...tick...
    Exactly, make the dems look bad so that you can further your own political goals.

    On the flipside the dems are actually trying to reform a broken system while ya'll sit on your asses and make up funny names like Obamacare and commiecare, and comparing obama to hitler.

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    Tominokar's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Excellent.

    That way there is only one party to blame when it implodes.

    2010...tick...tick...tick...
    My point exactly.. it seems Republican supporters would rather see their country go down the drain if it means that the Republicans can get into power. God forbid Obama does well, then they would have been wrong!

    Please answer the following honestly Phier. Would you rather that the US economy, healthcare and international relations improve up to 2012, causing Obama to stay in power; OR those factors stay the same/worsen causing Obama to lose the next election?
    Last edited by Tominokar; September 02, 2009 at 09:15 AM.


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  10. #10

    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Excellent.

    That way there is only one party to blame when it implodes.

    2010...tick...tick...tick...

    and only one party to claim the credit when it succeeds tick..tick...tick

  11. #11

    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    GREAT NEWS!

    Bipartisanship between two enemies is stupid and will never work.

    The passage of Health Care Reform will ensure Barack Obama get reelected for a second term. The Republicans dont want that. They would rather have millions of Americans die.
    Last edited by jankren; September 02, 2009 at 01:11 PM.


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  12. #12

    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    In case you missed grammar school, 'one of the worst' is not the same as 'the worst'.
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    Bleda's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    In case you missed grammar school, 'one of the worst' is not the same as 'the worst'.
    Well granted that we can boast of the highest cancer survival rate in the world, we have always been pioneers in surgical procedures and the fact that people come from all around the world to be treated here should tell you that we are far above "one of the worst" no matter how free it is in the Cuban medical paradise or anywhere else comparable.


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    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleda View Post
    Well granted that we can boast of the highest cancer survival rate in the world, we have always been pioneers in surgical procedures and the fact that people come from all around the world to be treated here should tell you that we are far above "one of the worst" no matter how free it is in the Cuban medical paradise or anywhere else comparable.
    When you're so low on the totem pole in terms of overall quality of available health care, there really isn't much in terms of "comparable". If I was Cuban, I'd be a little insulted that you just attempted to draw comparisons to the Cuban public system, and the degenerate version of health care practised in aMErica.

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    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Quote Originally Posted by OTZ View Post
    When you're so low on the totem pole in terms of overall quality of available health care, there really isn't much in terms of "comparable". If I was Cuban, I'd be a little insulted that you just attempted to draw comparisons to the Cuban public system, and the degenerate version of health care practised in aMErica.
    When you get cancer, I sincerely hope you go to Cuba for your medical treatment. much good may it do you


  16. #16

    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleda View Post
    When you get cancer, I sincerely hope you go to Cuba for your medical treatment. much good may it do you
    There's that biased sample again. You're saying this like in order to fix the problems with general healthcare we have to give up whatever leads in specific fields we may or may not have. That's just a screwed up way of thinking dude.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleda View Post
    When you get cancer, I sincerely hope you go to Cuba for your medical treatment. much good may it do you
    Oh, I wasn't aware you were an expert on Cuban cancer treatment?

    Based on your presumed due diligence of the Cuban system, I will keep your advice on hand in the event I A) get cancer, and B) find myself in a position whereby I can't afford to pay for the treatment.

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    Default Re: Dems to attempt to push through healthcare without bipartisan support

    This is a great dick measuring contest we have here, gentlemen. A lot of accusations, politically rhetorical gibberish, and basically a lot of getting nowhere in terms of discussion.

    It is obvious that the healthcare system needs to be changed but I am not convinced that what Obama wants us to have is what America really needs. I used to live in Canada and know what the healthcare system is like up there. It works but it isn't perfect. The same goes for the USA's system. I know personally two people who would have died if they had stayed in Canada with their health problems but luckily they had enough money to go to the United States and get treatment immediately. I'm not saying the universal healthcare system sucks, rather, I wish for people who believe it to be the answer for America to know that it isn't. Now, the USA has about 10x the population of Canada and people still believe that Obama's new system is a good idea when the country is in a recession and still at war?

    Most of what I've read so far from y'all has nothing to do with discussing healthcare. You accuse each other and political parties of this and that. No, the Republicans don't want people to die just so Obama doesn't get re-elected. And no, the Democrats don't want to make the United States into a communist nation. All this bias y'all are spewing to each other shows exactly how uncritical your opinions are and exposes ignorance.

    The dick measuring can continue.

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