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Thread: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

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  1. #1
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    The junior ranks of the armed forces should get an immediate £6,000 pay rise to help boost morale, the Lib Dems say.

    It was "shameful" that many privates on their first tour of duty earned less than police constables and junior firefighters, leader Nick Clegg said.

    He said the move, costing about £300m, could be part funded by cutting 10,000 "desk" jobs at the Ministry of Defence.

    Ministers said pay rises for the armed forces had been among the best in the public sector in the past three years.

    All military personnel were awarded a 2.8% pay rise earlier this year after the government accepted the recommendations of the Armed Forces Pay Review Body (AFPRB).

    As a result, the basic pay of a private on operations rose to between £16,681 and £25,887.

    'Dissatisfaction'

    But opposition parties have continued to press for higher pay and better accommodation to reflect the armed forces continuous involvement in conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan since 2003.

    The Lib Dems said there was "widespread dissatisfaction" about pay levels among the lowest ranks. They propose a £6,000 increase in basic pay for entry-level privates in the Army and their equivalents in the other services.
    This, they claim, would lift the annual salary of the lowest-paid privates from £16,681 to £22,680.

    They are also calling for longer-serving privates and lance corporals to get a £3,000 rise, which would take their average annual pay up to about £25,000.

    Corporals, sergeants and higher NCO ranks should get a £1,000 increase, equivalent to an extra £20 a week.

    Mr Clegg told the BBC: "I think it's a scandal that we're asking young men and young women to serve in the armed forces, risk their lives on our behalf on the front line and we're not giving them a decent wage.

    "That is why I believe we should now give ordinary soldiers, who are fighting day in day out for us, in our name, the same starting salary as anyone who starts in the fire service or the police service."

    Tax free allowance

    The party says salary increases can be paid for from savings within the Ministry of Defence's existing budget, primarily from job cuts.

    It is "ridiculous" that the MoD employed one "desk-based" employee for every two serving members of personnel, it argues, and the department could make do with 10,000 fewer civilian employees it deems "non-essential".

    A Ministry of Defence spokesman said pay recommendations came from the independent AFPRB and in February it had accepted a pay rise of 2.8% for all serving personnel - among the best in the public sector.

    "On top of basic pay, personnel deployed in Afghanistan for a six-month tour receive a tax-free operational allowance worth an additional £2,380 and a Longer Separation Allowance worth at least £1,194," he said.

    An Army private on operations would also get a minimum of £1,194 in Longer Separation Allowance and £2,380 tax-free Operational Allowance over a six-month tour, he said.

    That pushed the minimum pay for a Private soldier on their first operation up to at least £20,255, he added.
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8232737.stm

    A good move. But a question to the Brits, how far off is your next general elections?
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  2. #2
    Garrigan's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Has to be by next June, I believe.

    Canvassing for votes, you think?

    Once known as Kasey| Hoplite for The Greek Wars Mod

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    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrigan View Post
    Has to be by next June, I believe.

    Canvassing for votes, you think?
    No, this kind of thing always comes up in America around election time and seeing if that was the casey in Jolly old Britain.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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    Syron's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8232737.stm

    A good move. But a question to the Brits, how far off is your next general elections?
    Except the fact is Army personnel get access to very cheap housing and hence their pay naturally won't be as high as "equivalent" positions.



    And the Lib Dems only want to make the Army more expensive so it becomes ineffective! This has nothing to do with the welfare of troops, it's a cynical election ploy.
    Last edited by Syron; September 02, 2009 at 06:17 PM.
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  5. #5
    Garrigan's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    No, this kind of thing always comes up in America around election time and seeing if that was the casey in Jolly old Britain.
    Yeah, that was my point. Why does it always come up at election time? Because they're angling for a vote from those this would give rises to.

    Once known as Kasey| Hoplite for The Greek Wars Mod

  6. #6
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Garrigan View Post
    Yeah, that was my point. Why does it always come up at election time? Because they're angling for a vote from those this would give rises to.
    And their families, and their supporters. All military men are old enough to vote, making them a good demographic to cater to. Which is why the military always gets better pay and benefits around election time.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  7. #7
    LoZz's Avatar who are you?
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    And their families, and their supporters. All military men are old enough to vote, making them a good demographic to cater to. Which is why the military always gets better pay and benefits around election time.
    you can sign up for the army at 16 years 6 months. but you cant vote till your 18. so not all can vote

    I think a pay rise is always good, but as others have pointed out it has to be relivent to the fact they have alot of living costs paid for them.

  8. #8

    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Pay ought to be related to supply. If there are plenty of volunteers then no pay raise is necessary or vice versa.

  9. #9

    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by The Devil's Sergeant View Post
    Pay ought to be related to supply. If there are plenty of volunteers then no pay raise is necessary or vice versa.

    well their are plenty of ppl who want to be bank CEOs so by that logic they should get paid very little. Which is more than most of them are worth anyway.

  10. #10

    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    well their are plenty of ppl who want to be bank CEOs so by that logic they should get paid very little. Which is more than most of them are worth anyway.
    lol.

    Anyway, why does this come up around election time? on both sides of the pond too.


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  11. #11

    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    well their are plenty of ppl who want to be bank CEOs so by that logic they should get paid very little. Which is more than most of them are worth anyway.
    Wow within your very first sentence you completely exhausted your understanding of labor economics and completely wondered off into hate speech with the second sentence.

    I salute you sir!

  12. #12
    Garrigan's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Right, so really we're both saying the same thing?

    Once known as Kasey| Hoplite for The Greek Wars Mod

  13. #13

    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Well only good can come of this if you MoD is completely restructured.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

  14. #14

    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    British Soldiers get paid alot, good idea to give them a pay rise but I think the money they're on atm is perfect.

  15. #15
    Azog 150's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    They get £16,000 a year. As others have said, they don't have to pay as much for housing etc as other people- but for a job you put your life on the line for, not being paid as much as a Police officer or someone who works in a call-centre seems wrong.
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  16. #16

    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8232737.stm

    A good move. But a question to the Brits, how far off is your next general elections?
    Uk liberal democrats make opportunistic push for a days headlines; should have timed it to not coincide with the Libya thing.

    Sorry to be cynical farnan, but don't be so naive. The lib dens have literally no current nor potential power nor influence to make this change and are only even suggesting this because they are fully aware of their impotence and can promise whatever the they please without fear of ever having to do anything about it. It's also plain nonsensical at a time when the defence budget and the British public purse are all facing iminent cuts from whoever the next goverment is along with the services competing viciously for funding, including many huge projects such as the modernisation of our nuclear strike ability, the new aircraft carriers, eurofighters, helicopters and ied focused armoured vehicles. A dead soldier will be as dead on 20k as he will be on 16k.

    The lib dens are just taking a kick at a football.

  17. #17
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Uk liberal democrats make opportunistic push for a days headlines; should have timed it to not coincide with the Libya thing.

    Sorry to be cynical farnan, but don't be so naive. The lib dens have literally no current nor potential power nor influence to make this change and are only even suggesting this because they are fully aware of their impotence and can promise whatever the they please without fear of ever having to do anything about it. It's also plain nonsensical at a time when the defence budget and the British public purse are all facing iminent cuts from whoever the next goverment is along with the services competing viciously for funding, including many huge projects such as the modernisation of our nuclear strike ability, the new aircraft carriers, eurofighters, helicopters and ied focused armoured vehicles. A dead soldier will be as dead on 20k as he will be on 16k.

    The lib dens are just taking a kick at a football.
    As I said I like it, wasn't sure about the motivation. And now its as I expected, using the idea of "support the troops" for political gain.

    And that sucks about defense spending. Maybe we can send some of our budget over there. Once we cut some spending we can spare some for you.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  18. #18

    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    As I said I like it, wasn't sure about the motivation. And now its as I expected, using the idea of "support the troops" for political gain.

    And that sucks about defense spending. Maybe we can send some of our budget over there. Once we cut some spending we can spare some for you.
    As if.

  19. #19
    Farnan's Avatar Saviors of the Japanese
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    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    As if.
    What do you mean?
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

  20. #20

    Default Re: UK Liberal Democrats push for pay raise for UK Armed Forces

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8232737.stm

    A good move. But a question to the Brits, how far off is your next general elections?
    Uk liberal democrats make opportunistic push for a days headlines; should have timed it to not coincide with the Libya thing.

    Sorry to be cynical farnan, but don't be so naive. The lib dens have literally no current nor potential power nor influence to make this change and are only even suggesting this because they are fully aware of their impotence and can promise whatever the they please without fear of ever having to do anything about it. It's also plain nonsensical at a time when the defence budget and the British public purse are all facing iminent cuts from whoever the next goverment is along with the services competing viciously for funding, including many huge projects such as the modernisation of our nuclear strike ability, the new aircraft carriers, eurofighters, helicopters and ied focused armoured vehicles. A dead soldier will be as dead on 20k as he will be on 16k.

    The lib dens are just taking a kick at a football.

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