Petition to Obama to attempt to renegotiate NAFTA

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

If anyone else agrees that NAFTA is benefiting the multinationals while hurting the working man then feel free to fill out the petition here.. Also feel free to discuss whether Obama should attempt to renegotiate the agreement.
http://www.renegotiatenafta.org/

[Amry]

So... how is NAFTA benefiting multinationals while hurting the common man?

[Bleda]

So... how is NAFTA benefiting multinationals while hurting the common man?

Ask Obama. He made a campaign promise to rework the NAFTA and then after giving that speech called Canadian officials and said "No not really, you guys don't have to worry, I'm not really going to do that."

As much as I about capitalism I still believe in the free market I should add. I'm just tired of the corporatism. I believe that people with money and people with power should be viewed with equal suspicion.

You still don't view your Führer, BHO with suspicion. Everything he says is gold

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

Well I am not in the mood to explain it so here is an article:
http://ihscslnews.org/view_article.php?id=80
of course you cannot believe all articles, however that one seems pretty accurate.

[Amry]

Well I am not in the mood to explain.

Stopped reading right there.

Good God, is this how NGOs campaign for awareness these days? "Stop whale hunting! We're too lazy to tell you why it's bad though, so here are a few Wikipedia links you can browse to find out yourself"

[OneArmedScissor]

Stopped reading right there.

Good God, is this how NGOs campaign for awareness these days? "Stop whale hunting! We're too lazy to tell you why it's bad though, so here are a few Wikipedia links you can browse to find out yourself"

Willful ignorance.

[Amry]

What we need to do is cut the tax benefits and actually create penalty's for moving overseas.

Actually, I'm thinking of the other way round; give tax benefits for companies to base their operations in the US. The carrot will be more effective than the biggest stick, in my opinion.

But having labor unions for car manufacturers, retail, and some production plants just seems so unnecessary.

I sort of agree with this. My experience with the UAW (United Auto Workers) is very sobering; you can't even move a PC around without getting them involved. At first, I want to say "the US should concentrate on high-tech manufacturing and skills-based economy", but then I realized that not all workers in the US have the necessary skills, so what's gonna happen to them?

[Phier]

I sort of agree with this. My experience with the UAW (United Auto Workers) is very sobering; you can't even move a PC around without getting them involved. At first, I want to say "the US should concentrate on high-tech manufacturing and skills-based economy", but then I realized that not all workers in the US have the necessary skills, so what's gonna happen to them?

If they have no real skills, they find another kind of ditch to dig.

[Sphere]

Yes, decrease trade with the two nations who buy the most US exports, that will help our trade imbalance.

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

Well I am of the general opinion that it is best to evaluate all information yourself rather than listen to the words of other.. Preferably from primary sources rather than biased secondary sources.. and yes that even means I do not believe someone should look at anything without question even if it is something that I myself agree with.. for example I believe that books such as Das Kapital and the Communist Manifesto are generally accurate and fair sources you should not read them without being a little bit skeptical or you may be taken by the whole Communist "Stalin, Che, and Lenin were heroes bug while ignoring that Communism itself may have it's own faults.. anyway to summarize things up I would prefer that people make their own choices based on the facts presented and come to their own conclusions.. It would be contrary to my own ideals to try to force you adhere to my point of view (Which many people of all political viewpoints do)

[Amry]

Okay, I sort of just skimmed that long paragraph. But allow me to state my opinion, made with no malice whatsoever:

If you are too lazy to summarize and present us the basic facts, what makes you think we won't be too lazy to read your links? You must first hook the audience, then go, "by the way, if you need more information, here's something I think you would enjoy"

(by the way, being a believer of free trade, laissez-faire and all that, I have no idea why you guys want to scrap NAFTA. Free trade > protectionism)

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

It is not so much about free trade or protectionism as much as that the NAFT agreement allows multinationals to move to Mexico and other "3rd world" nations for cheap labor which has the dual effect of oppressing the people in said nation while also taking jobs from hardworking Americans.

[Amry]

It is not so much about free trade or protectionism as much as that the NAFT agreement allows multinationals to move to Mexico and other "3rd world" nations for cheap labor which has the dual effect of oppressing the people in said nation while also taking jobs from hardworking Americans.

Okay, so I'm biased because I benefit from this whole outsourcing business. There, a nice, neat little disclaimer

But I believe that multinationals aren't there to serve the people; they are a for-profit organization, and serve their shareholders. If you don't want them to move away, you need to make your own country attractive for them, not force them to do what you want with even more government regulations (which will probably drive them away even further)

[Admiral Piett]

Okay, so I'm biased because I benefit from this whole outsourcing business. There, a nice, neat little disclaimer

But I believe that multinationals aren't there to serve the people; they are a for-profit organization, and serve their shareholders. If you don't want them to move away, you need to make your own country attractive for them, not force them to do what you want with even more government regulations (which will probably drive them away even further)

It's not like America is a horrid place for government intervention in all affairs. We're not necessarily a socialist country yet. We're just in-between wavering between the two. What we need to do is cut the tax benefits and actually create penalty's for moving overseas. A great way for us to get more a large workforce for high-skill jobs and start relieving the trade deficit is to increase production here in America. One the causes of our recession is overconsumption. We've got to have something to balance it out.

I don't think the problems have necessarily been government interference as much as it has been labor unions dragging the government in. Now I believe that labor unions are very necessary things for hard labor and high risk or high skill jobs. But having labor unions for car manufacturers, retail, and some production plants just seems so unnecessary.

[Admiral Piett]

Die Revolutionaere is right on this one. NAFTA has been hurting us economically. NAFTA has been very good to the big corporations and major businesses but its been very harmful to our overall production and general employment. It's taking high-wage, high-skill jobs overseas such as those in auto manufacturing, electornics, softline production, etc. I understand that labor unions have been pushing companies overseas, but there are ways of arbitrating this without taking all of the labor outside the country and dropping employment here.

[Phier]

Die Revolutionaere is right on this one. NAFTA has been hurting us economically. NAFTA has been very good to the big corporations and major businesses but its been very harmful to our overall production and general employment. It's taking high-wage, high-skill jobs overseas such as those in auto manufacturing, electornics, softline production, etc. I understand that labor unions have been pushing companies overseas, but there are ways of arbitrating this without taking all of the labor outside the country and dropping employment here.

NAFTA?

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

Well ideally there would be no Capitalism.. at the very least there should be no Multinational Capitalistic machines.. but I myself in the spirit of compromise am for more laws that could possibly stop Multinationals from selling in the USA while not having a significant amount of their labor force coming from the USA.. Why should we support the oppression of other peoples and by proxy the oppression of ourselves?

[jankren]

Maybe Americans should demand less and work more?

[danzig]

And to think imagine how the inspiration to the American Revolution/Founding Fathers would have went if Paine wasnt in the mood to explain

Maybe Americans should demand less and work more?

Thanks but we already have one of the highest labor hour total in the world and the most productive total and 2nd in per hour worked, though the South Koreans own everyone in hours worked.

[BNS]

Obama doesn't even have the political mana to touch this at the moment. Never mind that I think that replacing it with "fair trade" is even worse.