Nazi Special - The Wave.

[Nikitn]

In Palo Alto, California, a history teacher named Ron Jones was teaching about Hitler, and Nazism. One of his students asked him, "But how could so many people fall to an obviously extremist, and totalitarian regime"? This was a hard question. Jones couldn't really answer it by conventional means.

The second day, Jones told his class "I am going to instil some discipline into you!" He started making the class practice in putting forward their books as quickly as possible, and as effectively as possible.

The third day, Jones started talking to the class about unity, and comradeship. So he wanted to make a class symbol, a class motto and he wanted to make a greeting. Something that shows discipline and enthusiasm. He drew a Wave on the black board. "That, will be our class symbol for now". The class motto was "Strength through discipline, strength through community, strength through action, strength through pride". He made them learn, and remember it in their entire class. Then he showed them a greeting. It was like this:



The fourth day, he started instructing people to wear a kind of uniform. Not a school uniform, but a uniform that makes it clear the student is a part of the "wave" movement. All students also received a passport, while a few who he saw as vulnerable, he gave a special passport. Their task was to spy on the other students, and report to him. He also started to make after school activities, but only for "The Wave members".

The movement grew in size, and as many people as possible were recruited. Gradually, it started to dominate the school to such a degree, that those few people who weren't members of the Wave, were beaten. They were also organized, and thoroughly disciplined.

On the fifth day, Jones made an announcement to every Wave member. "Go to the gymnastics room tonight. Only the Wave members allowed". He even put up guards there, people with special armbands.

After every member had sat down, he made a deceleration to them: "Hello! Strength through discipline, strength through community, strength through action, strength through pride! I am here to show a video, of the nation-wide leader of the wave. He is making an important announcement. Guards, put out the lights, and start the video!"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OK, I hope you enjoyed this. It is quite a famous story, and I probably made a few mistakes when retelling it. However, I think it also is the best explanation of how Hitler managed to get to power, and managed to make the German people pretty much ignore the many crimes, like those against the Jews in 1938. Jones was really one of those brilliant teachers. He stopped his experiment when it started getting out of hand, and with a brilliant ending. It's just really scary how easily humans can get indoctrinated. And the ending must have been a real bad shock for the students.

[Atterdag]

The German film Die Welle (from which your first picture is from) is actually a remake of the American classic the Wave (in turn based on a book).

I've only seen the German version, however, it was still very interesting and actually quite moving.

But how is this thread about history? Wouldn't it better fit in the arts section?

[Nikitn]

Well today IS the 1st of September, and it is about Hitler's rise to power. Anyway, you can move it if you like.

[Tiberius Tosi]

Wow, school has me so messed up I didn't even notice. Happy(?) 70th Anniversary everyone.

Good book, I remember reading it in 8th grade with my Nazi obsessed English teacher.

[Poach]

I do recall reading about this quite some time ago, Jones truly is a genius of a teacher. I bet all the pupils felt rather silly at the conclusion lol.

[megaflus]

our whole school whatched "die welle" so we could discuss human behavior or something in groups. ended up with us forming our own little cult called "the family" durring a party (I know ther's a bigger cult with the same name, yes) and a nother one later on.

great movie and really shows how easy it is to manipulate people if you know what youre doing.

[Bovril]

Althought he was working with teenagers, I agree that this is one of the great examples of a psuedo-experiment* in the psychology of totalitarianism. It's something that I and many other students of social psychology have both studied and been frightened by. I think an evolutionary aproach to this problem is very instructive and also something the layman can think about productively.

* in the technical, not the pejorative sense.

[0N3]

No one stopped to think when Hitler showed up? Before that there was no real reason to protest it seems to me,( if i assume that i wouldn't find it wierd to do all this at the beginning) but i would have refused if opinions i disagreed with would come up. So i think i might need a more detailed explanation.

[Bovril]

No one stopped to think when Hitler showed up? Before that there was no real reason to protest it seems to me,( if i assume that i wouldn't find it wierd to do all this at the beginning) but i would have refused if opinions i disagreed with would come up. So i think i might need a more detailed explanation.

The unpleasant aspects of this 'movement' that emerged were violence, exclusion, duplicity, etc. but also conformity and loyalty for the sake of loyalty. Some of the scary aspects of what went on were the 'successes' of the experiment. For example, students became more attentive and got better test scores. That may not sound scary, but, for me at least, attention to work created by those means is scary because it has nothing to do with the content of the work, be it positive, negative or neutral. There are more extensive accounts of the experiment on the internet and in text books, though the whole affair is slightly shrouded in mystery, since it was not assiduously recorded, and some of the effets may have been exagerated.

[Wolfcp11]

For example, students became more attentive and got better test scores

It says that the movement only lasted 5 days. Not nearly enough to compare test scores.

[Bovril]

It says that the movement only lasted 5 days. Not nearly enough to compare test scores.

It is potentially, but only in a decidedly anecdotal sort of a way, which is why I called the episode a psuedo-experiement.

[Del Valle]

I loved that book! Read it in 8th grade as an assignment and was enthralled by it.

[Keravnos]

If you read 1984 you can never be a Stalinist, aka communist. (If you think those are different, you don't know your history)
If you see "Die Welle" you can never be a Nazi.

[Nikitn]

If you read 1984 you can never be a Stalinist, aka communist. (If you think those are different, you don't know your history)
If you see "Die Welle" you can never be a Nazi.

Stop your attempts at derailing the thread (bringing in irrelevant books, saying Stalinism = Communism etc) please. If you want a discussion about Communism, go to that other thread about Communism.

[Poach]

If you read 1984 you can never be a Stalinist, aka communist. (If you think those are different, you don't know your history)

If you think those are the same, you don't know your theory. I'm supposing the Democractic People's Republic of Korea is actually a democracy because they claim to be?

Wolfcp11: I believe he ended the Wave after 5 days in order to prevent it getting out of hand, as it was merely a live demonstration of how people will blindly follow, not so much as a way of increasing efficiency.

[Keravnos]

If you think those are the same, you don't know your theory. I'm supposing the Democractic People's Republic of Korea is actually a democracy because they claim to be?

No, N. Korea is exactly what I am talking about. A communist country that needed a Stalinist leader to keep it that way. Pretty soon it was evident to all that he was an Absolute Monarch to anything but name. Which, of course, was the case with the original Stalin as well.

Every single one of the Communist countries until the fall of Soviet Union, EVERY SINGLE ONE, was under lock and key, under constant threat that they would be the next in line for a crackdown if they went "Prague" on USSR. All that was done with the apparatus put in place by Lenin and Stalin.

When Gorbachev started with his Glasnost policy, people wouldn't believe that they could speak freely. This, because they had been conditioned to blind terrorized obedience. When they realized they could actually speak their minds and not be sent over to a Gulag, jailed or drugged silly in a psychological ward, the explosion which occurred, from their free will and free will alone, destroyed the terror state, USSR. You might want to call it with pretty names and "beautify" the beast all you will, but that is exactly what it was.

After Lenin, if Stalin hadn't murdered all the private farmers and anyone who had the potential of becoming rich or middle class and threaten the enormous jail being created (also known as USSR), either "Spring of Prague" or Glasnost would have been in place, only sooner. After Stalin, it was the apparatus put in place by him that kept the system going for as long as it had, even if it was a doomed state, as every single person in it, Secretary General included, was locked into the cogs of that failure, which would threaten not only to take down everyone with them, but the entire world as well. Michael Gorbachev, thank God, tried to salvaged USSR. He saved the world, because, let's face it, a crazy mad dictator (Stalin would do) in his place, seeing the country failing apart might as well have taken the world along for the hell-ride.

Wolfcp11: I believe he ended the Wave after 5 days in order to prevent it getting out of hand, as it was merely a live demonstration of how people will blindly follow, not so much as a way of increasing efficiency.

A very informative movie. What has to be understood however, is that it isn't just talking about Fascism, or the Nazi state's creation, it could be talking about a Stalinist state as well, N. Korea. End results are the same.

[Nikitn]

No, N. Korea is exactly what I am talking about. A communist country that needed a Stalinist leader to keep it that way. Pretty soon it was evident to all that he was an Absolute Monarch to anything but name. Which, of course, was the case with the original Stalin as well.

It's not Communist. It's a dictatorship with a Stalinist styled leader.

Every single one of the Communist countries until the fall of Soviet Union, EVERY SINGLE ONE, was under lock and key, under constant threat that they would be the next in line for a crackdown if they went "Prague" on USSR. All that was done with the apparatus put in place by Lenin and Stalin.

Again, garbage. Czech-Slovakia was strategically very important. Eastern block countries could do more or less whatever they wanted, as long as they were loyal to USSR (I draw the liberal, reformist Polish leader who cooperated (and completely failed) with the west, when he was going to modernize his country). Hell, countries like Romania even broke off from the pact. Nobody cared, since they weren't anywhere near as important as Czech-Slovakia (or Hungary for that matter, but they are completely different).

When Gorbachev started with his Glasnost policy, people wouldn't believe that they could speak freely. This, because they had been conditioned to blind terrorized obedience.

Stop trolling. It was not anywhere CLOSE to that bad. People COULD speak freely about Soviet politics. They just couldn't directly challenge the state (like certain people constantly did, and were in the end expelled from USSR).

When they realized they could actually speak their minds and not be sent over to a Gulag, jailed or drugged silly in a psychological ward, the explosion which occurred, from their free will and free will alone, destroyed the terror state, USSR. You might want to call it with pretty names and "beautify" the beast all you will, but that is exactly what it was.

No it wasn't. And stop making up pure lies. It has been established long ago that you are completely ignorant of the USSR.

After Lenin, if Stalin hadn't murdered all the private farmers and anyone who had the potential of becoming rich or middle class and threaten the enormous jail being created (also known as USSR), either "Spring of Prague" or Glasnost would have been in place, only sooner. After Stalin, it was the apparatus put in place by him that kept the system going for as long as it had, even if it was a doomed state, as every single person in it, Secretary General included, was locked into the cogs of that failure, which would threaten not only to take down everyone with them, but the entire world as well.

Wow, are you joking? This is the type of BS I hear from American anti-Communist 70 year olds who had been indoctrinated for a good 10-15 years of their life.

About Stalin "making the system" totally wrong, and idiotic to say as well. The entire system of terror built by Stalin was completely broken down. All his crimes were revealed to the public, political prisoners were released and GULAG system was liquidated.

Michael Gorbachev, thank God, tried to salvaged USSR. He saved the world, because, let's face it, a crazy mad dictator (Stalin would do) in his place, seeing the country failing apart might as well have taken the world along for the hell-ride.

lmao, again BS. There was no one who would do that, even Stalin (never mind that any Post-Stalin leader was completely sane, and far more democratic).

A very informative movie. What has to be understood however, is that it isn't just talking about Fascism, or the Nazi state's creation, it could be talking about a Stalinist state as well, N. Korea. End results are the same.

No. Not even close. N. Korea is a state controlled by terror. Their king also came to power through terror.

Hitler managed to persuade huge masses, and effectively brainwashed them.

[0N3]

If you read 1984 you can never be a Stalinist, aka communist. (If you think those are different, you don't know your history)
If you see "Die Welle" you can never be a Nazi.

EB member, but still so ignorant to history and beliefs

[Mr Tuna]

That sign, isnt it what the Mexicans do when they sing their national anthem

[DAVIDE]

Wave it's something like the stanford prison experiment in 1971 and the milgram one in 1962