70th anniversary of the start of WW2 and Putin decides to give moral lessons.

[Arto]

Putin urges West to learn from second World War

RUSSIAN PRIME minister Vladimir Putin has urged western states to use today’s anniversary of the start of the second World War to overcome cold war-era suspicions and work with Moscow to form a new system of collective security.
On the eve of his visit to Poland to attend commemorative events, Mr Putin also called for reconciliation between Warsaw and Moscow, and rejected the view that a Soviet deal with Nazi Germany that carved up eastern Europe helped start the second World War.
Denouncing alleged efforts to “rewrite” history, Mr Putin said western appeasement of Adolf Hitler had left the Soviet Union with little choice but to sign a pact with him. “There are full grounds to condemn the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact of August 1939. But, after all, a year earlier France and England signed a well-known agreement with Hitler in Munich, destroying all hope for the creation of a joint front for the fight against fascism,” he wrote in Poland’s Gazeta Wyborcza newspaper.
Germany started the war by attacking Poland on September 1st, 1939, just days after Nazi foreign minister Joachim von Ribbentrop signed a mutual non-aggression treaty with Soviet counterpart Vyacheslav Molotov. Soviet troops invaded Poland 16 days later, acting on the deal with Hitler to divide Europe. Germany invaded the Soviet Union in 1941.
Mr Putin admitted that “today, we understand that any kind of collusion with the Nazi regime was morally unacceptable”, but insisted that the Soviet Union – which was already fighting a border war with Japan – was justified in seeking to avoid a conflict with mighty Germany.
“It is necessary for all of us, both in western and eastern Europe, to remember what tragedies can result from . . . seeking to ensure security and national interests at the expense of others,” Mr Putin wrote. “And there is another lesson to be drawn from history . . . that it is impossible to set up an efficient system of collective security without involvement of all countries of the continent, including Russia.”
His words had particular resonance in Poland, which hopes to host a US missile-defence system that Russia considers a grave threat to its own security.
Mr Putin struck a conciliatory note with Warsaw, saying his compatriots, “who were crippled by a totalitarian regime, fully understand the sensitiveness of Poles about Katyn” – the place where Soviet forces massacred some 20,000 Polish prisoners of war.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...253589240.html

[Pious Agnost]

Collective security from whom, Mr. Putin?

[Tiberios]

Oh the irony. He's trying to excuse Moscows dealings with Berlin while denouncing the claim that there is a "rewriting" of history

Then compares the MB pact to the Treaty of Munich. Yes the Treaty of Munich was bad and the West have admitted that for a long long time. Perhaps Russia should recognize that there pact with Nazi Germany wasn't exactly much better instead of constantly excusing their actions with the good old argument "they did too!".

It's getting tiresome and it's actually quite sad that Russia cannot acknowledge their mistakes.

[Pious Agnost]

They tried to co-operate with the West against Germany. Being rebuffed by France and Britain, they co-operated with Germany. They were in no shape to fight.

[Tiberios]

They tried to co-operate with the West against Germany. Being rebuffed by France and Britain, they co-operated with Germany. They were in no shape to fight.

Still, that doesn't justify dividing Eastern Europe. Britain was ready to fight either, but they didn't cooperate with Germany and divided Belgium and the Netherlands between them.

[Pious Agnost]

Britain had the channel to protect them, they always have.

France thought they could hold the line like they did in WWII.

The Soviets, however, had recently destroyed their officer core.

Once again, the Soviets had tried to co-operate with France and Britain, even promising to devote 1,000,000 soldiers for the defense of Czechoslovakia.

And there is no better way to say "Invade me, I'm weak!" than allowing an aggressive power to act violently inside your sphere of influence without you getting something out of it

[4th Regiment]

Perfectly agree with Pious Agnost

I would just add, if Soviets just remained passive, Hitler would occupy whole Poland and pupetise Baltic States, which means that in 1941, Vermaht would be in Leningrad in matter of days, and in doorsteps of Moscow in matter of weeks. No to tell, those territories in Poland, Soviets “occupied” were mostly Ukrainian and Byelorussian lands opportunistically conquered by Poland during Russian civil war

PS. And in Mr Putin is very right about collective security in Europe. When one or few major powers in Europe were expelled from collective agreements, this always meant war or serious instability

[Tiberios]

PS. And in Mr Putin is very right about collective security in Europe. When one or few major powers in Europe were expelled from collective agreements, this always meant war or serious instability

Collective security is vital yes and I have no problem with closer EU-Russian ties at all.

[Adar]

I think Putins statement is excellent diplomacy. He state the simple truth, it was morally wrong but viewed as a necessity by Stalin.

I do however think that we are forgetting that the 1930:s was not Nazism vs the world. It was West vs Facism vs Communism. Priot to 1938 it was even looking more likely with a war between Soviet and the West than between Germany and the West or Germany and Soviet. Britain and France even offered 6 divisions to be deployed in northern Sweden and Finland to help defend against a Soviet attack. Sweden and Finland declined this "offer" since the plan was to deploy 5 divisions on the Swedish ore fields and 1 division along the Finnish border, thus securing allied control of Swedish iron while only marginally protecting Finland. There just wasn't any Soviet-Western alliance to speak of until 1941. Sources here and here. I think that remembering this makes both the Münich treaty and the Molotov Ribbentrop pact a more understandable mistake.

[Razor]

I think Putins statement is excellent diplomacy. He state the simple truth, it was morally wrong but viewed as a necessity by Stalin.

I do however think that we are forgetting that the 1930:s was not Nazism vs the world. It was West vs Facism vs Communism. Priot to 1938 it was even looking more likely with a war between Soviet and the West than between Germany and the West or Germany and Soviet. Britain and France even offered 6 divisions to be deployed in northern Sweden and Finland to help defend against a Soviet attack. Sweden and Finland declined this "offer" since the plan was to deploy 5 divisions on the Swedish ore fields and 1 division along the Finnish border, thus securing allied control of Swedish iron while only marginally protecting Finland. There just wasn't any Soviet-Western alliance to speak of until 1941. Sources here and here. I think that remembering this makes both the Münich treaty and the Molotov Ribbentrop pact a more understandable mistake.

agreed!
The west should indeed take a closer look at what is theirs to blame in the period before WW2.

[Каие]

Haha Urging the West to remember the consistent treachery, double dealing and deceit from the Russians during the Second World War is not the best way to begin an attempt of rapprochement to work closer in security matters.