NYT Alleges Pakistan of Modifying Missiles

[Pseudo-Intellectual]

http://chowk.com/site/articles/index.php?id=16309
"On August 30, 2009, the New York Times ran a story about an allegation coming from the US Congress that Pakistan has reverse-engineered and optimized an American legacy Harpoon missile bought by Pakistan in the 1980s. The timing of this article is rather curious; the story was leaked by anonymous sources, on the same day that Pakistani Prime Minister Yusuf Raza Gilani left for a three-day visit to Libya on an invitation from the Libyan government

Pakistan’s US Ambassador in Washington, DC, Hussain Haqqani, quickly dismissed this story, saying: "The accusations are incorrect and based on wrong intelligence. We will make sure that the US understands the correct picture and we will fight back periodic efforts to falsely blame Pakistan, which remains a critical US ally in fighting terrorism. Instead of false accusations, US media should help Pakistan secure the help it needs to fight our common enemy, viz terrorism."

Another fake blaming nonsense from U.S. media, reading this news in local pakistani news paper i read that they allege us of turning harpoon missile in long range sea to surface missile which would threat india which U.S. definitely doesn't like. But Pakistani officials said that alleged missile is not harpoon but locally designed Pakistani missile.

Please read the whole article by clicking above given link.And please give your comments on this. If you like this thread + rep me.

Thank you.

[Pseudo-Intellectual]

Mods i am sorry by mistake i posted same thing twice so just to remove that----- sorry again

[Phier]

NYT's talking about a leak = not to be trusted.
Pakistani news site blaming India for said leak in a plot to undermine Pakistan = not to be trusted.

[Pseudo-Intellectual]

NYT's talking about a leak = not to be trusted.
Pakistani news site blaming India for said leak in a plot to undermine Pakistan = not to be trusted.

Dear Sir! with some difficulty i found this one site telling the whole truth but yes blaming india, but this thread is not going to be only about blames but it would have some technical discussion that either harpoons be modified in totally different type or not plus can Pakistan does this or not. There was some technical information also about this but i think you did not read.

[danzig]

If you are going to atleast pretend to be interested in a discussion here why did you fail to link the NY Times original article? You know the one that is reporting US goverment is accusing Pakistan of doing it not the paper itself, it is simply doing what media does, REPORTING IT. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/30/wo...30missile.html A clear indication is the title "U.S Says Pakistan" not "We at the NY Times say". And please if you even attempt to suggest Times is parroting goverment propaganda Ill scream given the paper's history. The article also clearly says "based on" the Harpoon and further states what your link says that the Pakistan deny this claiming it is their own built missile but US still claims its based on the design/tech of the Harpoon. The article GOES ON TO SAY that Pakistan claims it is based on North Korean missile and that US is being allowed to examine the weapon rendering this alot of huff and puff on your part about not much of anything. Its simple really, US believed a weapon it sold was modified, Pakistan says it wasnt, US says ok let us look at it and Pakistan goes ok here you go! Amusing too the NY Times SPECIFICALLY mentions 3rd party experts are skeptical about the US claims/worries. Ironic you ask people to read the full article you post but evidently you failed to read the original NY Times article which doesnt even remotely imply what your thread title suggest or the article you linked attempts to do.

Have a nice day.

[Sphere]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/30/wo...missile&st=cse



Above is the original NYT article. I don't think there is anything in there that you could call "fake", it includes all sides of the story, the relevant facts and inside sources, including an unnamed high ranking Pakistani official. This is not a sensationalist article by any stretch. The NYT is generally considered the top US paper for investigative journalism after it scooped the Washington Post in getting the story on the the secret Bush wiretapping program. If any newspaper has inside sources, its the NY Times.

[Pseudo-Intellectual]

that's it what do u do if someone in a thread against your country or nation gives un named source you say that then this is a lie so is here if nyt is right it should have given some valid reliable source. even if it includes all side of story but it has an allegation in it on Pakistan which strongly needed to be proved not just be given with some unnamed source non sense.moreover america has some special jealousy with our nuclear program and missile program and america doesn't want us to be independent in making arms reasons

1: we are one of biggest customers of american weapons

2:America wants us look weaker than india

3: America doesn't want any muslim country to be so powerful because that would be a threat to it's crusading aims and her invalid child israel.

So when we made a missile which is going to be a threat against India and her navy america's propaganda machinery started creating non-sense like this.

[Tiberios]

2:America wants us look weaker than india

Pakistan is weaker than India. India at least has control over her natinal territory, which Pakistan doesn't.

3: America doesn't want any muslim country to be so powerful because that would be a threat to it's crusading aims and her invalid child israel.

Ahh yes, the good old Western conspiracy against islam. Everything the West, especially the US, does is a part of larger Crusade against Islam
Got any sources that can verify this?

[danzig]

that's it what do u do if someone in a thread against your country or nation gives un named source you say that then this is a lie so is here if nyt is right it should have given some valid reliable source. even if it includes all side of story but it has an allegation in it on Pakistan which strongly needed to be proved not just be given with some unnamed source non sense.moreover america has some special jealousy with our nuclear program and missile program and america doesn't want us to be independent in making arms reasons

Again they are simply reporting the issue, and if it isnt an issue or if the article's reporting on the incident (remember THEY arent claiming it simply reporting it) is wrong why is your link basically reporting the SAME response from Pakistani government as the NY Times one does? Jealous of what, most your tech like is common thru out the world is stolen, borrowed upon or redesigned, everyone does it including us....your country isnt unique or even special in that regard, sorry to burst your bubble.

Your original post, and this thread is pretty much a dead end as you are trying to make an issue out of nothing...hell the frigging governments of Pakistan and US seem to have less an issue about this then you do.

1: we are one of biggest customers of american weapons

Ok and?

2:America wants us look weaker than india

Well you are but why would the US want that? US actually gains from the appearance of parity between the two thanks to the region of the world you are in with so many people.

3: America doesn't want any muslim country to be so powerful because that would be a threat to it's crusading aims and her invalid child israel.

a) US doesnt want any country to be so powerful to be a threat to its INFLUENCE none of this crusading nonsense crap, trust me if US and or the west went on a crusade you wouldnt be posting this b) its not like you are a world power so there would be no concern for such things anyway, hell you are probably #4 in the region you lie thanks to your neighbors.

So when we made a missile which is going to be a threat against India and her navy america's propaganda machinery started creating non-sense like this.

Yeah whatever All this over a news article...and not even one that was biased or slanted it reported the ENTIRE issue.

[Pseudo-Intellectual]

Again that was a report from nyt and should be with some reliable source not with some un named non sense yes if we look ab initio it's just a report but this report blames us of illegally modifying a missile given by us so it should have had some reliable source.plus what i said that this thread is going to be kind a technical one because this thing is going to be discussed that either pakistan can modify a missile or not? plus either that was a locally produced missile or in fact a modification? and till now except a part of the article to which i gave link in first post no one has shared some vies on technical aspect of the "news".

[Gumpfendorfer]

Other than the row over this article, both India and Pakistan are rapidly expanding their strategic weapons systems. The US -India nuclear deal signed by Bush accelerated this, it gives India the option to expand its nuclear arsenal, Pakistan is responding to that, using a large part of the financial aid from the United States meant to fight the Taliban, that was publishes in the same New York Times last year.

While everybody is focused on Iran and the missile shield, Pakistan at the moment is expanding its nuclear arsenal very fast. Given the fact that is also responsible for 90% of the proliferation of nuclear weapons technology and hardware, there is serious reason for concern, apart from escalating tensions between India and Pakistan since Mumbai.

I see no reason to question this article, Pakistan has sophisticated technology enough to do so. A.Q Khan not only was responsible for the nuclear development, he also is responsible for setting up their own industry for missile technology.

[danzig]

"American military and intelligence officials say they suspect that Pakistan has modified the Harpoon antiship missiles that the United States sold the country in the 1980s, a move that would be a violation of the Arms Control Export Act."

Would you like their names, addresses, social security numbers, blood type? If NY Times went "Col Joe Blow and Major Mcbutts said..." would it really matter much to you...you wouldnt know who they were anyway and you'd dismiss it as oh some Col and Major. The source is US goverment and its complaint it filed with Pakistani goverment...what more is there to know? Let's see military matter so probably Pentagon/DoD says X, it involves foreign goverment so handed off DoS to issue to protest. Your own article links it to the "US Congress", which evidently Pakistani writer is confused about the nature of powers of various branches of goverment, a congressman might complain but they cant issue a protest with a foreign goverment. You continue to make something out of nothing here as if there is some hidden information here.

How come you dont find issue with this: "A senior Pakistani official, also speaking on the condition of anonymity because the interchanges with Washington have been both delicate and highly classified, said the American accusation was “incorrect.” . Who is this man, what's his name?! Please find something of substances to complain about.

[Pseudo-Intellectual]

another effort from my side of shedding some light on the technical aspect

http://www.daily.pk/pakistan’s-nucle...nation’s-9780/

and looks like you have some very serious problems with A.Q. Khan yes he is responsible for our great emerging missile program but all of thsi is necessary fro country's defense not illegal.

another

Some experts are also skeptical of the American claims. Robert Hewson, editor of Jane’s Air-Launched Weapons, a yearbook and Web-based data service, said the Harpoon missile did not have the necessary range for a land-attack missile, which would lend credibility to Pakistani claims that they are developing their own new missile. Moreover, he said, Pakistan already has more modern land-attack missiles that it developed itself or acquired from China.

“They’re beyond the need to reverse-engineer old U.S. kit,” Mr. Hewson said in a telephone interview. “They’re more sophisticated than that.” Mr. Hewson said the ship-to-shore missile that Pakistan was testing was part of a concerted effort to develop an array of conventional missiles that could be fired from the air, land or sea to address India’s much more formidable conventional missile arsenal.

[danzig]

another effort from my side of shedding some light on the technical aspect

http://www.daily.pk/pakistan’s-nucle...’s-9780/

and looks like you have some very serious problems with A.Q. Khan yes he is responsible for our great emerging missile program but all of thsi is necessary fro country's defense not illegal.

another

Again showing you arent even reading the material you are complaining about since that text is FROM the NY Times article but because its ina Pakistan newsite that quotes it now you care? You do remember the point of your post/thread was to rip on the NY Times. As pointed out above the problem with is his selling of tech to other countries. One would think Pakistan would view this as traitorous to take Pakistan work and sell it off....

[Gumpfendorfer]

Took me two seconds to come up with this Pseudo I.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/...otos-show.html

June 21, 2007 10:51 AM

New_photos_show_mn A satellite photograph obtained by ABC News reveals Pakistan is nearing completion of a third, previously unknown plutonium production reactor, suggesting Pakistan may be planning to expand its nuclear weapons arsenal.

"With large stocks of plutonium, Pakistan can build a new generation of lighter, more powerful weapons that can more easily be launched via missiles and can cause far more damage," said David Albright, the president of the Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS), which, along with DigitalGlobe, provided the satellite image to ABC News.

and looks like you have some very serious problems with A.Q. Khan yes he is responsible for our great emerging missile program but all of thsi is necessary fro country's defense not illegal.

My problem with Pakistan, and Khan in particular, is that it has sold nuclear technology and hardware to Iran, Korea, Libya, and made attempts to sell it to others including Saddam, Saudi's and Al Qa'ida.

[removeduser_052420]

Pakistan has for a long time had missles that are more modern and better than the ones we supposedly altered, given to us by China.

[Sphere]

Umm....

The quote you use to refute the NY Times article, is the actual NY Times article.

I am a little confused as to what we are arguing about. Are you acusing the NYT of wrong doing as your title suggests?

[Amry]

Am I the only person who doesn't get what's wrong with reverse-engineering and modifying weapons? Why can't you do that? Are they breaking copyright laws of some sort?

[danzig]

Am I the only person who doesn't get what's wrong with reverse-engineering and modifying weapons? Why can't you do that? Are they breaking copyright laws of some sort?

Well guess have to assume its part of the agreement between countries with arms sales though I doubt many countries capable bother following it

[Central Asian Qaghan]

Pakistan has no need of modifying/reverse engineering cheap American weapons. It has its own in development which are much better as well as those from China. So why do we actually need to reverse engineer these? False news like always.