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    Default War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Two articles on the status of the war so far according to General McChrystal and others. With Iraq winding down it's pretty much shaping up that Afghanistan is going to wind up considering all the requests for more troops.

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    (CNN) -- Success is achievable in Afghanistan if the United States revises its strategy there, the top U.S. commander in that country said in a statement issued Monday.

    The statement came as Gen. Stanley McChrystal submitted a long-awaited report on the state of the U.S.-led war in Afghanistan.

    "The situation in Afghanistan is serious, but success is achievable and demands a revised implementation strategy, commitment and resolve, and increased unity of effort," McChrystal said in the statement.

    The general's review -- which Pentagon officials consider "confidential," but not "classified" or "secret" -- was passed on to Gen. David Petraeus, head of the U.S. Central Command; Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff; and Gen. Egon Ramms, senior NATO commander. Senior U.S. military officials said Mullen will share the report with the other service chiefs.

    A scrubbed-down version suitable for public release will not be available for this report, Pentagon officials said, but could not say why.

    The report will also be forwarded to Defense Secretary Robert Gates and NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen.

    Gates told reporters Monday he has not yet seen the report. He is in Dallas, Texas, touring a plant where the new joint strike fighter is being produced.

    The officials said Petraeus will add his remarks to the report, as will Mullen, who will then forward the report and corresponding remarks to Gates. Gates will review all of the remarks, add his, then brief President Obama.

    Obama has called Afghanistan a "war of necessity" and has placed a great emphasis on defeating the Taliban and al Qaeda militants operating there and in Pakistan.

    Questioned Monday about why things seem to be getting worse in Afghanistan six months after the president announced his new strategy for that country, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said the country has been neglected for years.

    "You can't under-resource the most important part of our war on terror ... and hope to snap your fingers and have that turn around in just a few months," he said.

    "We'll see the general's assessment when it gets here. The president is focused on ensuring that we meet measurable benchmarks and that we disrupt, dismantle and ultimately destroy al Qaeda and its extremist allies."

    U.S., British and other international forces under the NATO umbrella in Afghanistan bolstered their presence this year to improve security for the recent presidential and provincial elections.

    Violence has been particularly fierce in the south, where U.S. Marines have targeted the militants, and in the east near the Pakistani border, where American soldiers have been operating.

    Senior U.S. military officials have said the assessment shows that the Taliban exert "considerable influence" over a third of the country. Mullen, said recently that the situation in Afghanistan is "serious and deteriorating."

    Two U.S. service members were killed Monday in incidents involving roadside bombs in southern Afghanistan, according to the NATO-led International Security Assistance Force.

    August has been the deadliest month for U.S. troops in Afghanistan since the U.S.-led invasion began in 2001. The deaths Monday bring to 48 the number of U.S. service members killed in Afghanistan in August. The highest monthly death toll previously was in July, when 45 U.S. service members were killed.

    The United States now has about 62,000 U.S. troops in the country, and NATO allies have another 35,000. The Pentagon is planning to add 6,000 troops by the end of the year.

    There have been indications that Obama soon could be asked to commit more American troops. Gates, however, has signaled he would like to gauge the impact of the additional 6,000 troops before considering whether to send more.

    Asked if the president is concerned there might not be enough troops in Afghanistan, White House spokesman Bill Burton has said that Obama laid out a "winning strategy" earlier this year and the administration would wait for McChrystal's assessment and "make a decision accordingly."

    As for the Afghan presidential elections, Afghan President Hamid Karzai still leads his rivals, according to the latest partial election results released Monday.

    Karzai has almost 46 percent of the vote, compared with slightly over 33 percent for his nearest challenger, former Foreign Minister Abdullah Abdullah, the country's Independent Election Commission reported. Ramazan Bashardost is a distant third, with 12.5 percent.

    The percentages reflect tallies from slightly less than half of the polling stations as the count of votes from the August 20 elections continues.

    A candidate must win more than 50 percent of the vote to avoid a run-off. If no candidate wins an absolute majority, there will be a run-off between the top two contenders, most likely in mid-October.

    Final results of the first round of voting are not expected until September.

    Source
    By DEXTER FILKINS
    Published: August 31, 2009

    KABUL, Afghanistan — The top commander in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal, said Monday that conditions on the ground were “serious” but that the war here is still winnable, part of a long-awaited assessment of the American-led war.

    Officials in Washington say that while the general’s classified report did not request additional American troops, it effectively lays the groundwork for such a request in coming weeks.

    The change in strategy envisioned by General McChrystal would invest the United States more extensively in Afghanistan than it has been since toppling the Taliban government in 2001, Washington officials said. For President Obama, who already ordered another 21,000 troops to Afghanistan this year, the prospect of an even more extensive commitment of American troops would test his political commitment to the war at a time when he is already trying to tamp down discontent in his liberal base.

    In recent weeks, senior American officers here have said that they do not have enough troops to succeed. The American commanders and officials in Kabul were ordered to neither reveal the details of the assessment nor talk about them.

    General McChrystal took over American and NATO forces in Afghanistan in June, with an explicit charge to reverse the course of the war. Though it is still only August, 179 American soldiers have already been killed this year, making it the deadliest yet since the war began nearly eight years ago. Still, the general said that the war can still be won.

    “The situation in Afghanistan is serious, but success is achievable and demands a revised implementation strategy, commitment and resolve, and increased unity of effort,” General McChrystal said in a statement.

    As the overall commander here, General McChrystal oversees about 68,000 American soldiers and marines, and about 40,000 from NATO and other countries.

    American commanders say that General McChrystal’s initial assessment does call for a large expansion of Afghan security forces, and an acceleration of their training. There are currently about 134,000 Afghan police, and about 82,000 Afghan soldiers. Many of these units are inadequately equipped and have little logistical capability to sustain themselves.

    Just how many more Afghan police and soldiers General McChrystal wants is unclear. In Iraq, where conditions have stabilized markedly over the past two years, the American-trained Iraqi security forces number about 600,000.

    The main thrust of General McChrystal’s strategy has been illuminated by him and other commanders in recent weeks. The overriding goal of American and NATO forces is not so much to kill Taliban insurgents as it is to make ordinary Afghans feel secure, and by so doing, isolate the insurgents. That means using force less and focusing on economic development and good governance.

    General McChrystal also intends to try to unify the effort of America’s allies, including Britain, Canada, Germany and France, all of which have troops deployed here. He may also ask those allies to contribute more troops, money and training.

    Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates told reporters Monday that while he had not yet seen the report, he expected it to portray a “mixed picture” of the operations there. He was quick to add, however, that he thought “some of the doom and gloom perhaps is somewhat overdrawn.” Speaking in Fort Worth, Tex., he also said Afghan forces may have to grow beyond the planned level of 230,000 personnel to make headway, news services reported.

    The White House appeared to be preparing for the possibility that he would send more troops. “There’s broad agreement that for many years, our effort in Afghanistan has been underresourced politically, militarily and economically,” said Robert Gibbs, the White House press secretary. He went on to use the word “underresourced” several more times during his daily briefing.

    In Brussels, NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen said he would not rule out the necessity of more international troops in Afghanistan, but like Mr. Gates, he focused on what he called the need for additional Afghan forces.

    “I would not exclude the possibility that we need more combat troops, but first and foremost I would say that we need to increase significantly the number of Afghan soldiers,” Mr. Rasmussen said in an interview at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Bloomberg reported.

    As the deadliest month yet of the war for American forces came to an end, the United States military announced Monday that two American soldiers had died in separate incidents involving improvised explosive devices. The British Ministry of Defense announced separately that two British soldiers had been killed Monday in an explosion in southern Afghanistan.

    Peter Baker contributed reporting from Washington, and Sharon Otterman from New York.

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    If someone were to ask me if I think the War in Afghanistan is winnable or not, the first question that I will ask is, "what is the definition of 'win'"?

    I think it is extremely likely that the US will never win a counter-insurgency battle in its present, bomb-everything-that-looks-at-your-funny strategy. On the long term and with some degree of common sense, I think the US can stabilize Afghanistan, it's just that when you look at the spreadsheet at the end of the day, it's not worth it.

    Were I am an American, I would advocate a swift withdrawal from Afghanistan.

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    The best thing that could happen to Afghanistan is for the west to leave.

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor View Post
    The best thing that could happen to Afghanistan is for the west to leave.
    Umm...

    How about no.

    That is why noted PAKISTANI journalist Ahmed Rashid and nearly every expert on the region says withdrawing would be idiocy.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Umm...

    How about no.

    That is why noted PAKISTANI journalist Ahmed Rashid and nearly every expert on the region says withdrawing would be idiocy.
    Journalists covering the Afghan war rely heavily on coalition forces to gain access to a hardscrabble backcountry populated by Taliban militants. So the reaction was far from muted when the news broke last week that the Defense Department was paying a controversial private firm to profile reporters seeking to accompany — or "embed" — with troops. Reporters quickly complained that it was tantamount to building a blacklist and that the U.S. military was deliberately working to sideline journalists critical of its mission.

    Stars and Stripes, the independent, Pentagon-funded newspaper, reported that the Department of Defense had hired the Rendon Group to assess whether the prior work of reporters asking to be embedded was "positive," "negative" or "neutral." The newspaper highlighted one journalist profile that said its purpose was to "gauge the expected sentiment of [the reporter's] work while on an embed mission in Afghanistan." Military officials in Afghanistan quickly downplayed the charges, explaining that the profiles were not an attempt to rate reporters or news outlets but rather a way to gain background information to better equip officers for interviews and help public-affairs officers gauge likely areas of interest. Rendon said the same in a statement. Access has never been denied based on previous reporting, it insisted. Nevertheless, Rendon's contract will be terminated as of Sept. 1.

    However, journalists who have had frustrating experiences trying to gain access suspect that the profiling may have played a part. A freelance TV producer for al-Jazeera who asked to remain anonymous says he applied for four different embeds with U.S. forces in early February. After multiple delays over the course of several months, three of the requests were canceled. The fourth was finally approved a half a year later, but only when he bypassed military public affairs and directly contacted the officer in charge of the unit he wished to embed with. According to reports, the Rendon Group was originally hired in 2001 to track the reporting of the Doha-based network, which has been a fierce critic of U.S. policy in Iraq and Afghanistan and accused of bias by U.S. officials. Although he has never seen his profile, the producer suspects he was blacklisted because of his affiliation.

    He has yet to see his background profile. But I have seen mine. I recently applied to embed with U.S. Special Forces to cover a new initiative to raise and train civilian militias in Taliban strongholds. After waiting for more than a month for a response, I was accidentally copied on an e-mail sent by the public-affairs department to the presiding officer who would give or deny approval. A color-coded pie chart showed that 47% of my stories were deemed negative, 47% neutral and 6% positive. In a section titled "Key Takeaway Points," it was mentioned that my stories have been lengthy, with plenty of context and sources. It was added, however, that "most notably, he tends to quote experts" from a British think tank "which has been critical of the coalition mission and the Afghan government." A day after the e-mail — which included the Rendon analysis — was sent to the officer, my application was rejected without explanation.

    A U.S. military spokeswoman in Afghanistan, Lieutenant Commander Christine Sidenstricker, acknowledged that public-affairs officers in "a couple of instances" had been found to have interfered with embed applications and were "corrected immediately." To her knowledge, she says, this has never happened in Afghanistan. "A cursory review of Afghan coverage completely disproves" the notion that it's a policy, she says, pointing out that reporters who are deeply critical of U.S. forces have been allowed to embed multiple times. The Rendon Group's media analysis, she went on, was part of a broader one-year, $1.5 million contract to ease some of the workload borne by coalition forces in the country — "perfectly normal" in a wartime context.

    Several journalists were less troubled by the Pentagon's vetting process than its choice of the Rendon Group, which was instrumental in forming the Iraqi National Congress, a CIA-funded opposition group that went on to provide the Bush Administration with bogus information on Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction that was the groundwork for the 2003 invasion. Journalist Nir Rosen (who reported for TIME in Iraq) blogged that there "should be a tension between the media and the government. We are not on the same team." He praised an Army colonel for allowing him to embed despite a Rendon assessment that was highly critical of his reporting. Another journalist, P.J. Tobia, who has embedded with U.S. forces in Afghanistan and also obtained his profile, called the profiles "creepy" in a blog post. But he was most troubled, he said, by Rendon claims that such reports did not really exist.

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor View Post
    The best thing that could happen to Afghanistan is for the west to leave.
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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravnos View Post
    Please make more baseless assertions as to why the U.S. isn't an imperialist state.

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by OneArmedScissor View Post
    Please make more baseless assertions as to why the U.S. isn't an imperialist state.
    I will make one. If you leave the Taliban alone (because they are bound to take over, if there Afghanistan can't fight them back, and right now this isn't possible-nor will it be for the conceivable future) will they leave you alone?

    I think we can all agree that the Taliban left us all alone in 9/11. NOT
    Remembering that attack and the 3.000 people who perished, means that we can't allow the same elements to do the same thing, EVER AGAIN.

    9/11 was conceived in a mountain camp somewhere in Afghanistan when it was under Taliban rule. Almost all attempts of terrorist attacks to the west were either done by those trained in the Taliban camps of Afghanistan or those who they trained after leaving Afghanistan.

    Which is why, leaving Afghanistan is like an Ostrich sticking its head in the sand, thinking that the war on Terror doesn't involve it. Until it does, when it will be too late and everyone will be screaming their heads off "Where is the military?" or "Why doesn't the Government do something?" while on the same time they themselves had actually demanded this to happen by abandoning Afghanistan to the Taliban.
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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravnos View Post
    well played, but to follow on from ur point:

    Just picking up and leaving doesnt help anyone. the same view was taken to iraq by many here and in the world at large and it wasnt the answer there either. Its amazing how hypocritical people can be at times; ing off and leaving them to a rather dodgey fate is just as selfish as what u consider the 'imperialist' motives for entering the country in the first place (though that argument again, lacks real credibility in afghanistan at least in the short/medium term, as the country is one of the poorest in the world and only has its location astride pipelines and heroin to list for advantages - building pipelines and converting the poppy trade into something legal will take a very long time and a lot of resources from the West, namely the US - the world's largest aid contributer by a very, very large margin.)

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravnos View Post
    QFT my days I agree with keravanos. We will probably never set up a western democracy, but we can at least setup a goverment that cares about personal freedom an national stability. All we need to do after that is sort Saudi Arabia and Zimbadwe and....

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Keravnos View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks this bird is delicious? Just imagining those huge thighs... roasted... *drools*

    Where was I? Oh yeah, I personally think it's not anyone's responsibility to make sure Iraq or Afghanistan or Zimbabwe is a "thriving democracy" or whatever; I think someone once said that "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy"

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Amry View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks this bird is delicious? Just imagining those huge thighs... roasted... *drools*

    Where was I? Oh yeah, I personally think it's not anyone's responsibility to make sure Iraq or Afghanistan or Zimbabwe is a "thriving democracy" or whatever; I think someone once said that "America does not go abroad in search of monsters to destroy"

    True, you do ave the republican party, so plenty of monsters at home

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    I believe the definition of "win" in this sense is reduce the power of the Taliban to an extent that they lose their ability to pose a threat to the Afghan government once the Coalition forces leave the country.

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    I believe the definition of "win" in this sense is reduce the power of the Taliban to an extent that they lose their ability to pose a threat to the Afghan government once the Coalition forces leave the country.
    Ha, good luck with that.

    The appeal of the Taliban is this: they represent stability. I concede that "barbaric" is too kind a term to describe their idea of a proportionate punishment, but for your average Afghan farmer / goatherder / AK47-dealer, at least there is a semblance of law and order, someone you can turn to to get some sort of justice. This is preferable to the anarchistic, "strongest one rules all" conditions which will happen if there is a complete lack of government of any sort.

    To beat that, whatever guy who happens to be ruling Afghanistan now must offer a better deal to the Afghans; yet he cannot do so without making concessions to the warlords, some of them Pashtun tribesmen with affiliations to the Taliban. Therefore, unless if you're ready to pour in serious amounts of dough for an extended period of time (we're talking decades here, at least), then by your definition, the Americans cannot "win" in Afghanistan.

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Amry View Post
    Ha, good luck with that.

    The appeal of the Taliban is this: they represent stability. I concede that "barbaric" is too kind a term to describe their idea of a proportionate punishment, but for your average Afghan farmer / goatherder / AK47-dealer, at least there is a semblance of law and order, someone you can turn to to get some sort of justice. This is preferable to the anarchistic, "strongest one rules all" conditions which will happen if there is a complete lack of government of any sort.

    To beat that, whatever guy who happens to be ruling Afghanistan now must offer a better deal to the Afghans; yet he cannot do so without making concessions to the warlords, some of them Pashtun tribesmen with affiliations to the Taliban. Therefore, unless if you're ready to pour in serious amounts of dough for an extended period of time (we're talking decades here, at least), then by your definition, the Americans cannot "win" in Afghanistan.
    Except that only about 8% of Afghans want a return to Taliban rule. Most of the population right now is neutral (which is bad for us as they won't oppose the Taliban).

    What must be done is to win the population over to the Afghan Government so that they will oppose the Taliban and drive them to the hills where they cannot threaten the government and can be destroyed. We achieved that in 2001-2003, except we ed up and didn't take advantage of that and the Taliban returned.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    drive them to the hills
    Assuming that the average Taliban commander is smarter than a sack of molluscs, all he has to do is to tell his men to lie low, wait until the American/Afghan troops have been lulled to complacency, and then strike again. How can you tell who is Taliban and who is not?

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Amry View Post
    Assuming that the average Taliban commander is smarter than a sack of molluscs, all he has to do is to tell his men to lie low, wait until the American/Afghan troops have been lulled to complacency, and then strike again. How can you tell who is Taliban and who is not?
    We can't.

    The local Afghans in the area can. And that is why its important to win them over. Not make them love us, emotions shift more often then the wind, but make them believe its in their rational self-interest to support us.

    That is what broke the insurgency in Iraq (its not dead, but is no longer an immediate threat to the government), the locals drove out the insurgents, fed info and pretty much made it so they couldn't just lie low.
    “The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting done by fools and its thinking by cowards.”

    —Sir William Francis Butler

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Quote Originally Posted by Farnan View Post
    Except that only about 8% of Afghans want a return to Taliban rule. Most of the population right now is neutral (which is bad for us as they won't oppose the Taliban).

    What must be done is to win the population over to the Afghan Government so that they will oppose the Taliban and drive them to the hills where they cannot threaten the government and can be destroyed. We achieved that in 2001-2003, except we ed up and didn't take advantage of that and the Taliban returned.
    And how do you do that? Ask the Pashtun to trust the Shia Tajiks? Ask the Shia Tajiks to Trust the Hazaras? Ask the Pashtun to lay down and let the other minorities walk over them? Why should the Tajiks rule over the Pashtuns? Why should the Hazaras rule over the Pashtuns and the Tajiks?

    Fact is, you cannot solve the problem unless you decide to genocide one of the groups. The farce of the election showed the whole world what farce democracy in Afghanistan is. it was also shown that 8% of the Pashtuns in the south of Afghanistan bothered to vote because they saw the government as being a NA run affair, while a high number of minority area voted. Will this means tyrany of the Minority ove rthe majority? Of course it will. Thats what Afghanistani Democracy will never work. I think the goal of the West is to divide Afghanistan into two, one of the Pashtuns and one for the rest. But why? because the Pashtuns don't give a damn about the West, while the Tajiks and the Northern Alliance were each rushing to be the first ones to kiss the boots of the West. The Pashtuns will fight ot the death, mark my words, if the Tajiks come to power, while the Tajiks will start imploring the West of Rigging (Which has happened) that the election is unfair.

    I'd like to see some plan where you'd all have the Pashtuns, Tajiks, Hazras, Turkmen, Uzbeks, Baluch, Nuristani and others sit down and become all buddy, buddy. I can put it down in writing if you'd like that the West is too uneducated in dealing with this and eventually both groups will turn and use the West and NATO as pawns.

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    this same line has been used war too many times over the past 8 years.

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    Default Re: War in Afghanistan: "Serious but Winnable" says US-NATO commander

    Iraq was Bush's war to lose. Afghanistan is now Obama's to lose.

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