Dutch faction

[Tombl]

Is there any possible way of making a dutch faction in SS for a next version?

[Lazy-Hamish]

that area of the map is already crowded with factions: the english, the french, HRE and the danish often expand west. plus you have to remove one faction to place another

[Tombl]

Well maybe optional? Remove a not important facton for the dutch. It could be optional at the install. Because there are a lot of dutch players online on the forums here. And I think many of them would be happy to see a dutch factoin instead of let's say the Irish, I'm 100% sure that there are more dutch then Irish around. I know the dutch didn't play a very important role by then but it would be nice if they could be a faction in ss.

[bɑne]

How about those dutch players getting together and create one? Nothing beats motivation like that.
I think the Irish slot is already marked for Georgia or something else but that shouldnt stop you in creating a submod.
Once you've got the unit roster up and running adapting it into SS campaigns gets relativly easy (when compared to creating a faction).

[Lazy-Hamish]

was there a major dutch kingdom in the medieval era, flemmish yes but i can't think of a dutch one

[mcv]

was there a major dutch kingdom in the medieval era, flemmish yes but i can't think of a dutch one

Not Flemmish either. Flanders was a county, and regularly at odds with the county of Holland. Flanders successfully rebelled against France in the early 14th century, but that's not enough to make it a faction.

I'm Dutch myself, and while I love playing as Netherland in any game that offers the option, a Dutch (or Flemmish) faction in MTW would be inappropriate for the time period. The only "Dutch" faction suitable for that period is Burgundy. They controlled most of the Low Countries in the late middle ages. Even when the Dutch provinces (including Flanders) became firmly part of the HRE again, they were still known as the Burgundian Netherlands or the Burgundian Circle (Kreits).

[Awellesley]

Is there any possible way of making a dutch faction in SS for a next version?

It is unrealistic to represent the Dutch as unified faction in a Medieval mod. In Empire, sure, but not here.

[Tombl]

I already said that they didn't play an important role. But there are many dutch around and I'm only suggesting something. I bet there are a lot of dutch here who are able to mod the game. I'm not capable of doing that because I know nothing about modding only script a bit to change little things in the game. But everyone can do that.

[Chappy4756]

There are a lot of Canadian and American players too, probably more than Dutch, and I don't think we'll see real, historical factions removed to make room for them either. Kong and crew have put an enormous amount of time into this mod to make it as historically accurate as possible, while maintaining play balance. Historical innaccuracy aside, like another poster stated, NW Europe is way too crowded for another faction.

[Tombl]

I didn't say to put this in the original mod, I only suggested to make a mini mod and maybe make it optional when installing or something.

[Arto]

Try this if you're innovative: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=79274

Here's the index: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92488

[Tombl]

Thanks, maybe I'll try it once.

[Arto]

Thanks, maybe I'll try it once.

Graag gedaan.

[Sir Walter]

Burgundy was also nominally a French vassal.

[mcv]

Burgundy was also nominally a French vassal.

Just like the king of England.

Burgundy was actually somewhat in between France and the HRE. Many Burgundian territories (like most of the Low Countries) are HRE lands. But the situation is even more confusing than that: France had a Duchy of Burgundy, but right next to it (currently France-Comte I think) was the County of Burgundy, part of the HRE, and the center of the Burgundian's little empire (at least around the time they acquired the Low Countries).

Later they may have even moved their capital to Brussels, but I'm not entirely sure about that. All in all, it was a really confusing political niche they were in.

[Sir Walter]

Just like the king of England.

When William became king he became independent from the authority of the king of France.

[emzu]

If you are referring to William the Conqueror then he was a vassal to the King of France to begin with, when he was the Duke of Normandy and by 'conquering' England he still was under the vassalage laws (being France's most powerful vassal). At least that's what I believe and that's what my English history lecturer tought on his classes.

[Sir Walter]

If you are referring to William the Conqueror then he was a vassal to the King of France to begin with, when he was the Duke of Normandy and by 'conquering' England he still was under the vassalage laws (being France's most powerful vassal). At least that's what I believe and that's what my English history lecturer tought on his classes.

I thought when he was anointed he became equal to the king of France as a peasant is below a knight, a knight is below a viscount, a viscount is below a count, a count is below a duke, a duke is below a king, and a king is below only God and the Emperor?

I have no degree though so you're probably right

[Staffen]

Cities arose and flourished, especially in Flanders and Brabant. As the cities grew in wealth and power, they started to buy certain privileges for themselves from the sovereign, including city rights, the right to self-government and the right to pass laws. In practice, this meant that the wealthiest cities became quasi-independent republics in their own right.

This could be used to base a what-if kind of a-historical mod on.

Also, we (jazeker, wij) didn't just belong to the Germans or Burgundians. Parts of the country we're actually Byzantine for a good part of the 10th century, given to the imperatrix Theophano after her marriage with Otto II.

[Deadly Rabbit]

Byzantine? Were they administered by Greek officials, garrisoned by Greek troops, etc? I'm not sure that one stands up to close scrutiny.
While many people are aware that there was a marriage alliance between the empires in the late tenth century, I have never heard of the Eastern Roman empire controlling parts of the netherlands. Bridal dowries of land are somewhat different to ceding territories in their entirety to another sovereignty.