Scripture

[S.L.I.G]

I'm just going to go ahead and say it: This is ****ing ridiculous. I believe in God, and I also use to be an Atheist, so I can understand both sides of the argument towards the notion of God. I cant understand both sides of the argument towards organized religions and scripture. The question of God existing is...well its a legitimate question. How we came to be and all that crap, no matter where you end up the thought processes [hopefully] will be complex, with various ideas pulling one way or the other. Thats why I always saw believing in God as faith.

I don't see how believing in Religious scripture can be anything more than, silly. So Muslims/Christians/Jews/Hindu's, whomever, please explain to me how in the hell you can rationalize your belief in religious dogma, prophecies, and all that?

[Lord Rahl]

Even though I do not believe in certain religious beliefs anymore, I believe it is easy enough for people to believe in scripture(s). After all, if God is all powerful and our Creator, among other religious beliefs, then wouldn't He have left us rules and/teachings?

[S.L.I.G]

Even though I do not believe in certain religious beliefs anymore, I believe it is easy enough for people to believe in scripture(s). After all, if God is all powerful and our Creator, among other religious beliefs, then wouldn't He have left us rules and/teachings?

It's possible, sure. But why in the hell would he leave the teachings to the particular religion that someone follows? Why to that particular prophet? What kind of inner convoluted logic does someone have to go through in order to convince themselves the words [or supposed words] of a mad man thousands of years ago were derived from God, and not delusions? The teachings in and of themselves, possible. But any kind of belief in them seems devoid of all rationality and logic. I can't help but feel that anyone who takes scripture seriously is either lieing to others, themselves, both, or are just down right stupid.

And yet I've met some intelligent and reflective people- on these forums- who take the Bible, quran etc, seriously.

[boofhead]

It's possible, sure. But why in the hell would he leave the teachings to the particular religion that someone follows? Why to that particular prophet? What kind of inner convoluted logic does someone have to go through in order to convince themselves the words [or supposed words] of a mad man thousands of years ago were derived from God, and not delusions?

Plenty of madmen have proclaimed they were prophets or messiahs - most are forgotten. How did a Jewish carpenter who never led men in war and just got executed by the Romans like thousands of others become the most influential person in the entire history of the world? Where are the million temples to Caesar, or Augustus, or Alexander?

God works in mysterious ways. He knows what will happen; from small seeds grow gigantic trees.

Have you read the words of Jesus recently? He wasn't a madman or a twerp. His message is as relevant now as it always was, and always will be as long as humans are on earth.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Plenty of madmen have proclaimed they were prophets or messiahs - most are forgotten. How did a Jewish carpenter who never led men in war and just got executed by the Romans like thousands of others become the most influential person in the entire history of the world?

Well, having the religion that developed out of your sect get adopted by the Roman Empire as its state religion and then passed to its European successor states tends to help.

Where are the million temples to Caesar, or Augustus, or Alexander?

Largely abandoned when the Roman Emperors stopped funding them and then banned pagan worship.

Have you read the words of Jesus recently? He wasn't a madman or a twerp. His message is as relevant now as it always was, and always will be as long as humans are on earth.

Yes, well a message that the end of the world is coming "soon" tends to maintain a certain freshness for fairly obvious reasons.

[boofhead]

Well, having the religion that developed out of your sect get adopted by the Roman Empire as its state religion and then passed to its European successor states tends to help.

Yes, very likely wasn't it? A dead carpenter's musings having such world-changing influence.

Largely abandoned when the Roman Emperors stopped funding them and then banned pagan worship.

Yes, very likely wasn't it. Ditto about a dead carpenter's musings.

Yes, well a message that the end of the world is coming "soon" tends to maintain a certain freshness for fairly obvious reasons.

Sure. Considering the time since creation it would always be ''soon''. And that wasn't particularly what I was referring to. I was referring to the human message and the moral philosophy therein. It has never been bettered as far as I'm concerned. People can write their massive books on philosophy and they still fail. The parables of Jesus trump them all.

[cfmonkey45]

Well, actually, these documents hold the very thing that make us who we are. If we reject the Bible/Torah/Qu'ran, we can't be Christians/Jews/Muslims. It'd be like trying to call yourself an American while still rejecting the entirety of the constitution, laws, and history books.

[S.L.I.G]

Well, actually, these documents hold the very thing that make us who we are. If we reject the Bible/Torah/Qu'ran, we can't be Christians/Jews/Muslims. It'd be like trying to call yourself an American while still rejecting the entirety of the constitution, laws, and history books.

Yeah...so obviously the implication of this thread is questioning the internal logic of anyone who ascribes to a major religion, specifically because of the blatant flaws in scripture...

[cfmonkey45]

Yeah...so obviously the implication of this thread is questioning the internal logic of anyone who ascribes to a major religion, specifically because of the blatant flaws in scripture...

Ugghh, one of these threads.

[S.L.I.G]

Ugghh, one of these threads.

90% of the threads in the ethos are screaming matches about God, or which religion is more evil. I'm not even here for a debate...I'm asking. What the hell is the internal logic behind faith in a religion? I mean unless someone is a complete tool, their religion has to mean more to them then "its what my parents taught me" or "it inspires me". There's got to be something in the scripture, a real life experience, or some thought process that convinces or reaffirms your beleif in a faith. I've never heard a Christian [etc] actually tell me the thought process behind their faith. It just ends with people like yourself, who say "ugh" now but in a few years have not only abandoned their faith, but have become atheists.

[My Favorite Martian]

can be anything more than, silly

It may have something to do with reading.

If you read good stuff, you educate yourself.
If you read bad stuff, you spoil yourself.
If you do not read at all, your mind remains in a state of innocent simpleness.

A library should be part of every humanistic education program in an ideal world. But you do not need a program at all, you can simply read. It is then hopefully the good stuff. The main point remains the same. You need to read.

That is what scriptures do, taking you away from your innocent simpleness.

[scarybandit]

"... although it is quite true that the existence of God is to be believed since it is taught in the sacred Scriptures, and that, on the other hand, the sacred Scriptures are to be believed because they come from God... nevertheless, this cannot be submitted to infidels, who would consider that the reasoning proceeded in a circle."

-Descartes, Meditations.

[scarybandit]

So Boofhead's argument is, essentially:

1) People from humble origins do not often become influential.
2) Exceptions to the above rule rely on divine mandate.
3) Base your life on the doctrine of one of the above such persons and exclude the rest arbitrarily.

1) is nonsense.
2) is assertion based on the unproven/unprovable.
3) is random, unless you are making your selection based on popular vote, in which case Catholicism wins.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

So Boofhead's argument is, essentially:

1) People from humble origins do not often become influential.
2) Exceptions to the above rule rely on divine mandate.
3) Base your life on the doctrine of one of the above such persons and exclude the rest arbitrarily.

It seems so. Yet he can't see why this rather silly argument isn't exactly compelling to anyone who hasn't already decided that this particular cult is "true".

[boofhead]

So Boofhead's argument is, essentially:

1) People from humble origins do not often become influential.
2) Exceptions to the above rule rely on divine mandate.
3) Base your life on the doctrine of one of the above such persons and exclude the rest arbitrarily.

1) is nonsense.
2) is assertion based on the unproven/unprovable.
3) is random, unless you are making your selection based on popular vote, in which case Catholicism wins.

No, part of boofhead's argument is that if it speaks like a duck it's a duck. And if you find yourself in a position where you have to re-evaluate everything ever taught to you - then you were never in a confident place to begin with.We have 3 or 4 thousand years of advice we willingly sacrifice for the likes of Madonna or Kylie.......or Dawkins.......or our local PM lol

[Avendiel]

No, part of boofhead's argument is that if it speaks like a duck it's a duck. And if you find yourself in a position where you have to re-evaluate everything ever taught to you - then you were never in a confident place to begin with.We have 3 or 4 thousand years of advice we willingly sacrifice for the likes of Madonna or Kylie.......or Dawkins.......or our local PM lol

[boofhead]

tim hawkins

[Avendiel]

never heard of him

[S.L.I.G]

Boofhead, if Christianity is true because it spread like a plague, what do you say to all the evidence that it was written by many, many, many people? That in the early days of Christianity, no two bibles were alike? How can you even validate that the words come from who it is said they come from?

Edit: Boofhead, doesnt your belief directly contradict the Christian idea of free will?

[boofhead]

Boofhead, if Christianity is true because it spread like a plague, what do you say to all the evidence that it was written by many, many, many people? That in the early days of Christianity, no two bibles were alike? How can you even validate that the words come from who it is said they come from?

Look at the earliest Bibles in existence v that which are available now. They're the same.

Edit: Boofhead, doesnt your belief directly contradict the Christian idea of free will?

Certainly not. We have free will in our own lives, in the personal, microcosmic sense. When you attempt to apply that notion to God you're going to come face to face with a cosmic brick wall, aka the Will of God.

Macrocosm v microcosm is what this predestination is. Our views and our lives are important, but they won't change the Outcome. We're like bugs in a bottle!