What can and can't a private contractor import/operate regarding weapons?

[Richard]

Was reading about Blackwater recently and noticed they have some pretty heavy-duty stuff, such as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RG-31. Of course, being a contractor they can only use this gear 'defensively'. Not that that matters much in a place like Iraq so long as they don't attack first.

So anyway, (and let's use the USA as an exampe), what can and can't be owned and operated by a private entity in the US? With live ammo or otherwise. For instance, I know the RNZAF wanted to sell their fleet of Skyhawk fighters to an American enterprise which wanted them for training, but the US government or law blocked the buyer.

[Ciabhán]

As long as the PMCs solicitors can prove that the PMC uses the equipment defensively then they can buy and use it. Fighter aircraft, bombers, helicopter gunships(such as the Apache, Cobra, HIND, Mangusta, modified Blackhawks and Little Birds), MLRS weapons, most arty, cruise missiles- things like that have all failed to pass government muster so far. Almost everything else is fair game.

[Pseudo-Intellectual]

Was reading about Blackwater recently and noticed they have some pretty heavy-duty stuff, such as the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RG-31. Of course, being a contractor they can only use this gear 'defensively'. Not that that matters much in a place like Iraq so long as they don't attack first.

So anyway, (and let's use the USA as an exampe), what can and can't be owned and operated by a private entity in the US? With live ammo or otherwise. For instance, I know the RNZAF wanted to sell their fleet of Skyhawk fighters to an American enterprise which wanted them for training, but the US government or law blocked the buyer.

Looks like my thread would start a new debate in twc, now coming to the topic i think that black water originally is a security company, what she can have or haven't totally depends on the state where they operate.But giving them (her or other security contractors) unlimited liberty would definitely not be good.

[Kjertesvein]

I dont get what is so controverial about a multi-purpose mine-protected armoured personnel carrier (APC). It's basicaly a car, not a weapon, with more steal to protect against bullets and class 1 mines. Aircraft is waaaay over the limit, but what weapon do blackwater actually got...`?

[Kjertesvein]

Blackwater vehicles, helicopters and aircrafts

Cougar H


Blackwaters Grizzly APC


Puma


Bell


MD 500 "little bird"


Super Tucano counterinsurgency aircraft


CASA 212
Blackwater CASA 212 over Afghanistan dropping supplies to U.S. Army troops.

STOL


Mc Arthur


Dogs


Battle field airship aka. drone

[Surgeon]

Um, I'm pretty sure anybody can own an RG-31, but it's probably limited to driving around your own property due to emissions control.

[Richard]

What about RPGs (including live grenades, obviously)?

[justicar5]

What about RPGs (including live grenades, obviously)?

AFAIK they can. I have certainly seen underbarrel grenade launchers on their rifles in news footage, wouldn't be too much of a stretch to assume they have access to full blown RPGs. The thing is I don't have a problem with mercenaries in general, Executive Outcomes for instance did a great job in Sierra Leone, but Black Water themselves are another story.

[Richard]

No I don't have an issue either any more than I do with regular military, provided they're totally professional, which Blackwater apparently weren't on some occasions.

What about importation into the US? I read that Blackwater's attack aircraft came without guns (though presumably this is because it's intended for training purposes), but could they have imported into the states WITH functioning guns?

For instance, I know in NZ the only tanks have the firing mechanism removed/disabled to be allowed into the country (amusingly, all the nation's working tanks belong to collectors, the heaviest firepower the military have are LAV3s/Strykers)

[Gromovnik]

For instance, I know in NZ the only tanks have the firing mechanism removed/disabled to be allowed into the country (amusingly, all the nation's working tanks belong to collectors, the heaviest firepower the military have are LAV3s/Strykers)

Seems like a first step toward my world domination, conquering NZ with a borrowed tank...

[Treize]

They have no fighters aswell!
---------------------------------------------------------

I do believe Blackwater and such fit perfectly into the American thinking/mentality but these kind of companies should not be allowed in my own country IMO.

[justicar5]

They have no fighters aswell!
---------------------------------------------------------

I do believe Blackwater and such fit perfectly into the American thinking/mentality but these kind of companies should not be allowed in my own country IMO.

I had heard that americans who served as mercenaries lost citizenship, but I can't find the reference, so it must have been changed.

[Treize]

Maybe the onces who killed people in Iraq?
There was some incident.

[justicar5]

Maybe the onces who killed people in Iraq?
There was some incident.

no as in any american who served as a mercenary ceased to be an american citizen. Old law iirc orrectly the americans who served as snipers in the Argentinian army against the british in the falklands lost citizenship for instance.

[Farnan]

no as in any american who served as a mercenary ceased to be an american citizen. Old law iirc orrectly the americans who served as snipers in the Argentinian army against the british in the falklands lost citizenship for instance.

I think its if you fight as a mercenary for a foreign force against the US or an ally.

[justicar5]

I think its if you fight as a mercenary for a foreign force against the US or an ally.

ahh ok that would make sense. In all honesty though, mercenaries can be useful, sometimes even necessary, but they also need to be accountable underlaw.

[Treize]

I still believe the monopoly of violence should stay with the state.

[justicar5]

I still believe the monopoly of violence should stay with the state.

strange way of putting it, but it does even with mercenaries, assuming that nation states are the only organisations allowed to hire them for offensive operations. If they fulfil a Private security role, they should be subject to the same rules as all other private security guards.

[Treize]

But how often have these kind of cooperations took part in a higher level of violence??
Not neccesarily American ones.

[Richard]

Sorry to take my own thread OT, but could the cannon on a LAV (NZ Army's heaviest) armed with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M242_Bushmaster do much harm to a Leopard 1? I recall seeing a guy on TV whose wife bought him one for his birthday, he drives it round a quarry he owns, but should he decide to rampage (even with no firing mechanism)...what would stop him exactly?