Finnish businessmen want to change the pipeline to Karelia

[Smeel]

I'verun this through Google translate and It works really well, I have corrected some minor grammatical errors.

Source: Dagens Nyheter
HELSINGFORS. A group of Finnish businessmen trying to use the Russian-German Nord Stream project in order to regain Karelia. The group claims to have been offered large sums by the Russians if they withdraw their application for a mining gold claims located in the pipeline route.
the Businessmen are willing to negotiate, but not about money.
- We want Karelia back," said attorney Kari Silvennoinen, representing businessmen.

According to Silvennoinen, representatives of the Russian government has offered traders an unspecified sum of money if they withdraw their application for a claim for an ore mine in the Gulf of Finland at the bottom.

The application has been submitted to the Labor and Industry Ministry is already a year ago and the ministry will decide on mining claims later this fall. Processing of the application expected delay gasprojektet.

The businessmen have responded with the Russians that they are prepared to withdraw its application if the Russian side contacting EX and Nobel Peace Prize winner Martti Ahtisaari to negotiate a return of Karelia which Finland had to leave to the Soviet Union in World War II.

- For us it is enough that the Russian government turns to Ahtisaari and ask him probing. - For us it is enough that the Russian government turns to Ahtisaari and ask him probing. Then they will be happy to start rolling out its gas pipes. I am sure that Ahtisaari will take over the mission, says Silvennoinen who himself has not spoken to Mr. Ahtisaari.

- I can't do that. Contact must be taken from the Russian side. But whoever heard Ahtisaari Nobel speech realize that he would not say no.

According to Silvennoinen is the Russian reaction to Provide Money typical of them. According to Silvennoinen is the Russian reaction to provide money typical of them.

- Their idea is that you can buy us, but for our part of it is not money. We have presented our proposal in writing to the Russian government's trade representative.
According to Silvennoinen Russians have asked to come back to the businessmen's proposal.

Senior Mining Pekka Suomela, told the Finnish Broadcasting Company (YLE) news service that he understands the business men's "application" to say the least special. "

Silvennoinen do not understand the reaction.

- The project is serious. - The project is serious. We have submitted detailed plans for how the project will be managed technically. We have submitted detailed plans for how the project will be managed technically. But it is obvious that we can not Initiate investigations and analysis on the seabed before the gold claims issue is resolved.

The four-strong business skills group reported previous experience of drilling projects below sea level. All four are in Silvennoinen also people who have a strong sense of Karelia.

He himself has pushed the bar a couple of high-profile cases in which the exiled Karelians claim back property that ended up across the border. The cases dealt with at this time in the European Court of Human Rights.

What are your thoughts about this?

Will the russian Government trade Karelen for the Gas pipe?

No russian bashing please.

Edit: If a admin could change the title to "Finnish bussinessmen want to change Karelia for a pipeline"?

[Erik]

Isn't the whole point of the new gas line to connect Russia to Germany with as few countries as possible in between, as they might disrupt the flow of gas for personal gains?

If it goes through Finnish territory, what's stopping the Finns from "pulling a Ukraine"?

[Town Watch]

Isn't the whole point of the new gas line to connect Russia to Germany with as few countries as possible in between, as they might disrupt the flow of gas for personal gains?

If it goes through Finnish territory, what's stopping the Finns from "pulling a Ukraine"?

yep thats the idea of the pipeline, not sure what you meant by pulling a Ukraine, you mean stopping the gas flow intentionally or something like that? Dunno, maybe Gazprom or whoever the Russian investors are in this case, just think that Finland is more trustworthy than Ukraine.

The article was a bit longer in the Finnish newspaper Helsingin sanomat, so the thing with the pipeline is that it's being drawn through the Baltic, through Finnish territorial waters (Baltic has no international waters AFAIK) and these businessmen apparently hold a mining claim to some parts of the seafloor through which the pipeline is planned to go. At least that's my impression.

[Enemy of the State]

Does Karelia actually have any real value or is it just a worthless piece of forest?

[arkeologen]

Does Karelia actually have any real value or is it just a worthless piece of forest?

When it was finnish territory, it was very valuable as there was good farmland there for example.

Then the Russians completely ruined Karelia.

[Salem1]

When it was finnish territory, it was very valuable as there was good farmland there for example.

Then the Russians completely ruined Karelia.

Just like they ruined the rest of the territories that used to be Swedish over there, actually - Karelia isn't alone. Estonia and Latvia were totally ruined after Russia annexed those lands, they used to be the breadbaskets of Sweden (including Finland). Ingria was only spared (and I don't really know about that tbh) because Peter made it the new capital. Stalin then repopulated much of Karelia and Ingria with Russians, sending ethnic Finns that had lived there for centuries alongside the Russians who had chosen to stay (their minority rights were guaranteed, it was for example forbidden by law to forcibly convert orthodox Russians - the Finns weren't as lucky when Russia annexed the area, especially during Stalin's regime) away to nice places like Siberia.

Coincidentally, these areas also turned into backwaters during this. Russian conquests in the Baltic and Finland have been good for Russia but bad for the people in these regions.

[Erik]

sure what you meant by pulling a Ukraine, you mean stopping the gas flow intentionally or something like that?

Yes, I meant stopping the flow to Europe, to blackmail Russia into selling gas to them below market value.

If the gas line goes through Finnish territory, and Finland got into another dispute with Russia, it's not at all unthinkable they will use the gas line for political leverage.

The article was a bit longer in the Finnish newspaper Helsingin sanomat, so the thing with the pipeline is that it's being drawn through the Baltic, through Finnish territorial waters (Baltic has no international waters AFAIK) and these businessmen apparently hold a mining claim to some parts of the seafloor through which the pipeline is planned to go. At least that's my impression.

Oh, that part wasn't clear, I though there was international waters connecting Russia to Poland.
So the route is Russia->Finland->Poland->Germany, correct?

In that case: it seems the Finns are already using the pipeline to blackmail Russia - that was quick

ps: how many people live in Karelia and how would they feel about this?

[Salem1]

Finally, I've been waiting for this. Go Finland and take back Karelen!
Honestly, the peace between Finland and SU is an ugly thing. Not only politically but also on a map... Finland looks so ugly compared to what it used to look like:

Now: http://europa.eu/abc/maps/images/members/finland.gif
Then: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...of_Finland.png

[Norge]

It would take billions upon billions to get Karelia up to Finnish standards after decades of Russian mismanagement. Really, everything that Russia touches turns into an alcoholized and backwards cesspit, Karelia being no exception.

[Salem1]

Does Karelia actually have any real value

In short:
Before Russia had annexed it: yes
After Russia had annexed it: no

It does have a lot of historical, national value. A lot - especially Viborg which was founded by Sweden in 1293 (the name literally means Us-castle fyi), but the rest of Karelia as well.

It would take billions upon billions to get Karelia up to Finnish standards after decades of Russian mismanagement. Really, everything that Russia touches turns into an alcoholized and backwards cesspit, Karelia being no exception.

True, but this doesn't mean that Finland suddenly needs to turn its treasury towards Karelia. That is a gradual process.

[Smeel]

@ Town Watch: Thanks for clearing that up!

Karelia is as historicaly important as any piece of land being part of your country for hundreds of years, Swedish for 500 years, then finnish for 200 years or something

And West Germany didn't die when it incorporated East germany, right?

[Smeel]

my personal opinion is that Finland should get Karelia
@Erik: I don't know if the area of the conflict is on Finnish territorial water. As I have understood the article, these finnish bussinessmen have claims on mining the seabed on international water. I guess somewhere in the finnish gulf where you can't go around it?

[Town Watch]

a more realistic claim would be to demand Petsamo and Rybachi peninsula. After all there's 350 000 russians living in Karealia. Karelia would also have real value though, economic value that is. Potential for hydroelectric plants and such.

[Ishoss]

a more realistic claim would be to demand Petsamo and Rybachi peninsula. After all there's 350 000 russians living in Karealia. Karelia would also have real value though, economic value that is. Potential for hydroelectric plants and such.

Yeah, cant they please take Petsamo? I prefer Finnish neighbours!

[Treize]

Businessmen claiming land in the name of Finland?
What's the Finnish state's their response?

[Bleda]

I think your article is hard to read. At first I thought I was stoned trying to read, then I realized that you repeat stuff repeatedly. You repeat stuff repeatedly. You repeat stuff repeatedly.

But yeah, go finland

[Hakkapeliitta]

What the hell would Finland do with Karelia? Very few Finns have any kind of attachment to it anyway.

[Tiberios]

As much as I would like Finland to regain Karelia, I think it would be a waste. It's populated by Russians now as far as I now, with most orginal finnish occupants resettled in Finland after the continuation war.

[Heathen Hammer]

Depends on how much value does Karelia have to Russia and how much value could the pipe give. Although I doubt they would agree to that, since many Russians live in Karelia now.
And the whole rusophobic rant of some posters here about "evil alcocholic uncivilised rushanz ruining the land" was pretty amusing as well.

[Salem1]

And the whole rusophobic rant of some posters here about "evil alcocholic uncivilised rushanz ruining the land" was pretty amusing as well.

It's true though, that's what makes it really amusing.