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  1. #1
    TW Bigfoot
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    Default General Sir Jock Stirrup: UK armed forces chief of staff

    Speaking in the Gaurdian

    Quote Originally Posted by General Sir Jock Stirrup
    All of us in the military knew, and made clear, that this would be a long, hard summer for our people in Afghanistan; that they faced a resilient and determined enemy who would make every effort to disrupt our work to support the development of effective governance in Helmand province. It was clear to us that the Taliban had identified Helmand and Kandahar as their vital ground, and that they would throw everything into the struggle there. That's why the International Security Assistance Force, Isaf, responded by increasing its own force levels in the region, deploying elements of the US Marine Corps.
    Nor do we gain any satisfaction from the accuracy of our prediction, because the consequence is a price that our people have paid in blood.


    There has been much debate about the rationale for our engagement in Afghanistan. I see it in fairly straightforward terms. We face extremist Islamist groups who pursue a campaign of global terrorist violence in order to further their ideological ends. These groups pose a direct threat to the UK, its citizens and their interests, so must be countered. But we cannot counter them effectively by taking them on one by one. We have to help foster an environment in which it is much harder for them to thrive and operate. And as part of that effort, we need to reduce the ungoverned spaces that harbour such groups, and from which they mount their campaigns.
    Governance, of course, is a political activity. So our military purpose has been to create the time and space within which political solutions, local as much as national, can be forged. Where we are providing the requisite degree of security, real governance is starting to emerge; evidence that the strategy, when properly resourced, is working.


    What about resources? We certainly require more boots on the ground, but they really need to be Afghan boots. The extent to which Nato nations might have to do more in the interim is something that the new Isaf commander, General McChrystal, is reviewing. But in terms of numbers, it is the Afghans who are of strategic importance in the longer term, not Nato.
    Equipment is a subject that has generated much debate, some of it well informed, some of it not. Our equipment is good and improving; commanders speak of it very highly. But the enemy adapt their tactics and techniques to counter our capabilities, so what is "the right equipment" in a campaign changes, and often very quickly.


    I believe that what we're doing in Afghanistan is of strategic importance to the UK; I believe that, although very difficult, it is possible. I believe that the strategy is the right one, although I think that General McChrystal will have some important things to say about what is required to implement the strategy effectively. But I do not think the outcome is a foregone conclusion.
    I see two major threats to our strategic success. The first is national and international will: do we have the staying power and strategic patience to see through such a long-term endeavour in the face of the short-term vagaries of tactical fortune? The second is Afghan delivery. We can only hold the ring for so long; following the elections, early Afghan progress on things like security sector reform, rule of law, economic development and reintegration of reformed insurgents – all critical to governance – is essential.
    Our military are withstanding hardship, danger and loss with steadfast determination. They look to us to seize the opportunities they've created; to deliver on the issues of will, commitment and Afghan political progress that are now crucial to success. We owe them and their families no less.
    Ive picked out a few replies,



    Quote Originally Posted by Ben
    The problem I have with Afghanistan is that we are supporting a loose association of drug warlords and corrupt western proxies.
    People like Karzai, General Dostrum and others are not worthy allies for a western democracy.
    I found it particularly telling that no pressure was brought to bear by the pro-feminist identity politics obsessed New Labour party to prevent the new rape law the Karzai government brought in.
    I support our troops, but we should be out there building a democracy, not defending marital rape and the heroin trade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Hill
    We face extremist Islamist groups who pursue a campaign of global terrorist violence in order to further their ideological ends. These groups pose a direct threat to the UK, its citizens and their interests, so must be countered.

    And according to British Intelligence, 75% of them are in Pakistan.Can you explain why British troops are dying fighting the wrong enemy in the wrong country, and how any of this improves my personal security?

    While we shower aid on the (illegally nuclear-armed) Pakistan?
    Comment here, or if you wish comment directly on the article
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...istan-strategy

    all other comments are also there.

    Last edited by bigfootedfred; August 27, 2009 at 10:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Lawrence of Arabia's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: General Sir Jock Stirrup: UK armed forces chief of staff

    I too wonder if things will ever get better in Afghanistan. Who would have thought we'd be in this position 3 years ago with Iraq looking better than Afghanistan.

    By the way, is his name (Sir Jock Stirrup) supposed to be humorous? Y'know, Sir Jock Strap?
    Quote Originally Posted by Empi Rapper View Post
    Go on Farnan, go and help those despicable thugs you call our soldiers to kill some of the poorest people on the planet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Empi Rapper View Post
    Don't you realize that it is a good thing that so many British soldiers have already been killed as punishment for the invasion?


  3. #3
    TW Bigfoot
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    Default Re: General Sir Jock Stirrup: UK armed forces chief of staff

    this is from a while ago, but does cover alot

    "The situation is worse; there's no question about that," says Ronald Neumann, the U.S. ambassador to Afghanistan from 2005 to 2007. "Provinces close to Kabul are now having incidents that didn't have incidents before. And to my mind, that is clearly a strengthening insurgency."

    The next president of the United States will inherit a foreign policy nightmare: wars on two fronts, an overstretched military, a resurgent Taliban and a reconstituted Al Qaeda based far from America's reach.
    In The War Briefing, award-winning FRONTLINE producer Marcela Gaviria and correspondent Martin Smith offer harrowing on-the-ground reporting from the deadliest battlefield in the mountains of Afghanistan, and follow the trail to the militant safe havens deep inside the Pakistani tribal areas

    full program link
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl...ing/view/#more
    60 minutes
    -------

    The country is in utter shambles, Karzai gets the only power he has from foreign troops and the warlords he appeases enough. The only way outa this may be to make a deal with the taliban..its just a big sodding mess.



    pakistan up close:


    Our guys are having to face taliban activity in nearly half the country while looking over their shoulders at bloodthirsty warlords who are supposed to be 'covering their backs', our guys are fighting hard in this god forsaken hell hole... but what are they fighting for?

    channel 4 had a good programme on it
    http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#2925167

    I too wonder if things will ever get better in Afghanistan. Who would have thought we'd be in this position 3 years ago with Iraq looking better than Afghanistan.

    By the way, is his name (Sir Jock Stirrup) supposed to be humorous? Y'know, Sir Jock Strap?
    Well, it seems like mission impossible right now thats for sure.
    heh, no i dont think it was supposed to be funny on purpose.

    This whole thing is just bloody depressing tbh, his opening comments or header if you like is this

    Victory in Afghanistan is not a foregone conclusion. Early progress on security and rule of law is essential
    Not a forgone conclusion? more like grasping at ing straws..early progress? its been 8 bloody years for christs sake, how many even bother to vote? 5,10% at most? and honestly who can blame them for not being bothered to vote for druglords and corrupt 'leaders' that control barely half the fecking country anyway.

    Its a really sad joke is what it is.

    What about resources? We certainly require more boots on the ground, but they really need to be Afghan boots. The extent to which Nato nations might have to do more in the interim is something that the new Isaf commander, General McChrystal, is reviewing. But in terms of numbers, it is the Afghans who are of strategic importance in the longer term, not Nato.
    oh yes, the 'afghan army', maybe, just maybe if they wernt stoned off their ing face all the time they may actaully be of some good!

    Equipment is a subject that has generated much debate, some of it well informed, some of it not. Our equipment is good and improving; commanders speak of it very highly.
    He says this, but still our guys are still being sent out in land rovers designed for use in riots, helicopters are in chronic short supply, APC's? ha thats a good one! The guns still jam, their arent enough men and they seem intent on spreading them ever thinner just so they can claim they hold more ground than they really do, at the same time giving the taliban ever more freedom to move around and attack postions they couldnt even get near last year.
    Last edited by bigfootedfred; August 27, 2009 at 11:21 PM.

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