Is Catholicism a Pagan Cult?

[Atatürk]

Many Catholics don't realise that their religion was actually based upon a solar cult which had existed since ancient times. Ever visited the Vatican?

Underneath the Vatican lies a subterranean world of pagan religions most notably of Persian, Greco-Latin and Egyptian origin. Thinly veiled the Catholic religion is a solar cult.

Underneath the Vatican lies the cult of Shamash, the Helios in Greek times. Above the ground about a distance away from the Vatican lies a graveyard. Underneath this grave yard once stood the cult of Janus, the "keeper of gates", according to Latin mythology.

Catholicism is often identified as a Mary-cult, and many Catholic churches are dorned with images of Mary with child.

The image of Mary with child is a thinly veiled iconography of the image of Isis and Horus. The facts are simply astounding and very controversial.

Why do Catholics say "Amen"?

Etymology is fascinating. The Hebrew "MN" (vowels ommited) is where this is derived, and means "So be it". In Arabic, "Amen" (aMN) is Amin, and was the same name of the god Amun. In fact, the Hebrew name for "Amun" is..."MN", translated into Greek (and mentioned in the Bible) as Amon, thus No-Amon, is "City of Amun".

The Catholic "Amen" which is often repeated after a verse is an invocation of the god Amun. A little known fact about this god reveals that the Hebrew "Amen" (aMN) and the Arabic "Amin" confirms the Egyptian view of Amun/Amen (MN) as the "Mysterious One" or WHu. Amun was also known as Yah amunou = YHWH. The name of Amun was supposed to be hidden (and hence "Mysterious One" ) and that's why the name was regarded as taboo by the priests at Thebes. Thebes in the Bible was known as "No-Amon", the City of Amun.

Amon in Arabic is Amin, and Amin is identical in translation to the Hebrew Amen, the word invocated in Catholicism.

The Hebrew translation of Amen as "So be it"may indeed be a distraction. We find many exampes of this when we discover the names of place in Egypt in the Hebrew language. Many Egyptian place names have been altered by the Hebrew translation. And many names of Egyptian kings have been misinterpreted and schewed. The Bible contains anachronisms of names and place names, as well as names of places masquerading as names of Egyptian gods.

Most notable is "Zion" which was regarded as "Jerusalem" according to Jewish history...but not history itself. History knows Zion as the City of Thebes, as this place was known as Zoan in the Bible. But an error seemed to have occured in the translation, because "Zion" was supposed to be located first in Egypt as "the city of On" whom the Greeks called Heliopolis "On", in Hebrew: Zi'on, the City of On. This is just one example. The Bible is therefore responsible for a little misinterpretation.

This has lead some experts to question whether the Egyptians moved Heliopolis to Jerusalem at some point, or whether it was twined with Jerusalem. I will not go into this here.

Catholicism is certainly a pagan religion; a thinly veiled one at that. I wonder why people don't realise this. Another thing that Catholicism doesn't realise is that the Catholic religion; the orthodox of Christianity had competed with the Isis cult in the Roman empire.

The Isis cult competed with the Mary-cult of Catholicism. The implications are controversial but nonetheless are factual not only through the religious iconography of the time but the events which surrounded the growth of Orthodox Christianity in the Roman empire.

My bet is that the early orthodox Christian movement had converted pagans but to do so the Christian cult had to incorporate pagan doctrines, that of the cult of the mother and child, Mary/Isis/Jesus/Horus.

[TWoxy]

Thundareiks initiates thermonuclear pwnage in 3, 2, 1...

[cfmonkey45]

There seems to be an anti-Catholic trend, first the wrongful and anachronastic drabble of associating the Whore of Babylon to the Church, and now this. Reverand Chick would be so proud.

Thundareiks initiates thermonuclear pwnage in 3, 2, 1...

This. QFT.

[VALIS]

Yes. Absolutley.

[Manco]

*starts to make popcorn so he can enjoy this train wreck to the fullest extent*

[S.L.I.G]

pa·gan (pgn)n.1. An adherent of a polytheistic religion in antiquity, especially when viewed in contrast to an adherent of a monotheistic religion.
2. A Neopagan.
3. Offensive a. One who has no religion.
b. An adherent of a religion other than Judaism, Christianity, or Islam.
4. A hedonist.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/paganism

3b will be in every single definition of Paganism. Christianity is by the very bloody definition of the word, not pagan. It has pagan roots and influences, sure, whatever. Doesn't make it a pagan religion.

Remember Children, use your words properly before you create a thread next time! Yes yes!

[Claudius Gothicus]

Nah catholicism is what it is, the biggest branch of modern Christianity.
In the beginning it centered around the roman cult originated by the roman Christians The Roman Catholic Church evolved to what it is today mainly after the schism with the Greek Church, and yeah maybe Christmas and Sol Invictus were in the same day but that has a lot more to do with state reasons and uncertainty of Jesus date of birth than religious ones. Plus every major religion in the Western hemisphere today came from the same geographical area, it's clearly impossible to avoid influences and ideas from past religions.

[Mangalore]

You confuse two things here. What Catholicism did was to adopt pagan worship as halfway right way of worship and add another layer: There is one God and Jesus was his son => all former gods were at best demons or angels. To become the Roman state religion and be appealing to the masses Christianity reinterpreted pagan worship as parts of the Christian truth.

In a way that is how the Romans formerly adopted non Roman deities into the Pantheon (redefining them as equivalence or aspects of Roman gods). Roman religious tolerance was built around this. Christianity built Christian supremacy around it without offending the traditional populace who would have acted pretty angered if a know-it-all would have told them they can't have their traditional holidays anymore.

A lot of Christian/Catholic symbolism is inherited, but not the religious superstructure. In that view Protestanism and Islam are two more abstracted monotheistic views that clean up the ties the first Christian doctrines perserve to former religions (Orthodox Christianity is not any different than Catholicism in its use of such symbols), but in away they came much latter and were thus a more revised version of a monotheistic faith.

[Daeger]

All religions are equally pagan. What does it matter anyways? I don't see paganism as a more bad thing than any of the mainstream religions. They're all just as pagan and just as retarded.

Are pagan religions some how "more wrong" than other religions? No.

Why does the religious elitism always show so strongly in the followers of mainstream religions? "My religion above all others, even though they are just as retarded as mine"

[Ummon]

I am interrogating myself as to why exactly anyone is needed to "own thermonuclearly" that OP. It is essentially a joke.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Zion

Mount Zion (Hebrew: הר צִיּוֹן‎, Har Tzion) is a hill in Jerusalem, Israel, just outside the walls of the Old City. Jewish scriptures apply the term "Mount Zion" to the Temple Mount and the City of David. The term "Zion" became a synecdoche referring to the entire city of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel.

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art14294.asp

Synecdoche

Synecdoche (si'-nek-doh-kee) is a specific term employed when you use a part of the thing to mean the whole thing itself.

"All hands on deck", as example, where 'hands' represent the men attached to them. No one, after all, assumes the captain to mean that they should literally cut their hands off and toss them on deck.

"Get your butt over here", is another well known, albeit slightly gauche, form of synecdoche. Note that literal usage of figures of speech such as synecdoche and metonymy are often employed heavily for comedic impact. Think 'Monty Python', as example.

When you talk about the "Heads of State," you are using synecdoche. If, however, you were to grumble over the "Head of America", you are using synecdoche and metonymy.

Why, you ask?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amen

The word Amen (pronounced /ˌɑːˈmɛn/ or /ˌeɪˈmɛn/; Hebrew: אָמֵן, Modern Amen Tiberian ’Amen ; Arabic: آمين‎, ’Āmīn ; "So be it; truly") is a declaration of affirmation[1][2] found in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. Its use in Judaism dates back to its earliest texts.[3] It has been generally adopted in Christian worship as a concluding word for prayers and hymns.[2] In Islam, it is the standard ending to Dua (supplication). Common English translations of the word amen include: "Verily", "Truly", "So be it", and "Let it be." It can also be used colloquially to express strong agreement,[2] as in, for instance, amen to that.[4]

Isis and Horus:



Virgin and Child:







http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archetype

An archetype (pronounced /ˈɑrkɪtaɪp/) is an original model of a person, ideal example, or a prototype after which others are copied, patterned, or emulated; a symbol universally recognized by all. In psychology, an archetype is a model of a person, personality, or behavior.

In the analysis of personality, the term archetype is often broadly used to refer to

a stereotype—personality type observed multiple times, especially an oversimplification of such a type; or
an epitome—personality type exemplified, especially the "greatest" such example.
a literary term to express details.

Archetype refers to a generic version of a personality. In this sense "mother figure" may be considered an archetype and may be identified in various characters with otherwise distinct (non-generic) personalities.

[Bwaho]

I don't see paganism as a more bad thing than any of the mainstream religions. They're all just as pagan and just as retarded.

/thread

[Ummon]

If the project was having a thread starting badly and ending badly, you mean.

[Amadeus]

the romans violently persecuted early christians.
so the fact that there are some similarities between catholicism and roman beliefs makes perfect sense.
they incorporated these ideas into their own religion to avoid persecution by the romans. they hid christianity under paganism for fear of being killed.
by the time christianity was allowed these ideas had become tradition

[Ummon]

Another catastrophic fail: they "incorporated" those ideas the same way you incorporated your mother tongue or the basic knowledge of the legal system of your country: through inculturation. They were part of the cultural milieu of the time.

They are still part of the cultural milieu, infact, being also, archetypal (which means, biologically determined too).

That is why, infact, American Indios adopted the Virgin as their protector saint: the Virgin shares common traits with a local female deity (Tonantzin -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonantzin ) I hope you aren't going to tell me Christians copied the Virgin from Aztecs.

http://www.mexconnect.com/articles/1...-of-all-mexico



Incidentally, the Virgin of Guadeloupe has common iconic traits with Nut and not Isis. See starry cloak:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nut_(goddess)

In the Ennead or Egyptian mythology, Nut (alternatively spelled Newet, and Neuth), was the goddess of the sky. [2] Her name is translated to mean Night and she is considered one of the oldest deities among the Egyptian pantheon[3] with her origins being found on the creation story of Heliopolis. She was the goddess of the daytime sky, but she eventually became referred to as simply the sky goddess. Her headdress was the hieroglyphic of part of her name, a pot, which may also symbolize the uterus. The ancient Egyptians said that every woman was a nutrit, a little goddess. Mostly depicted in human form Nut was also sometimes depicted in the form of a cow whose great body formed the sky and heavens, a sycamore tree, or as a giant sow, suckling many piglets (representing the stars).

For what concerns the sad and disheartening "allocation" of cults under, near, before, etc. the Vatican, it is a spectacle of colossal ignorance one can only behold in desperation: cults in the Roman Empire and late Republic were more often than not syncretistic, and didn't generally belong to a place. Shamash wasn't surely worshipped in Rome, and Janus has very little to do with Shamash, (and Mithra is not Shamash). A Mithraeum (which you can visit) is present under St. John outside the Walls and under the Vatican, because Christians built over previous temples and sacred places of pagans.

As you can see here: referenced to... Armenia: http://www.tacentral.com/architecture.asp?story_no=3

Early Churches
The earliest churches were built on pagan temples. The designs and forms were borrowed from the Greco-Roman styles, which relied on volume (taking up space) with carefully orchestrated combinations of vertical and horizontal lines in the columns, on the carvings and the friezes to differentiate the building from those around it.; The temple of Garni is a good example of the type of sacred building that existed throughout Armenia before the advent of Christianity.; Another is the temple of Sushi at Erebuni, an Urartian fortress city unearthed in Yerevan.; Urartu borrowed deities and cuneiform from the Mesopotamian region (Assyria and Babylon) and used human-animal combination in its representations of gods, as well as a type of frieze design that looks a bit like that found in Mycenae and Assyria.; The friezes made their way to Christianity in the form of frescoes (translated through the Greco-Roman friezes and mosaics).; But the ideas of using animals to represent gods and their likeness, or combining animal and human forms (winged angels, Lion, eagle, the lamb) are very old symbols from the pagan era, which survive to the present day.

Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianised_sites

Thus overall, the details are mere invention.

Using the habit to build over/reuse temples as an allegation of paganism would allow us to say that infact, Muslims are pagans, and that they are Christians and Jews as well:

1) The Kaaba was a pagan sanctuary, with high likelihood devoted to the worship of Ba-al (the rituals are identical to date)
1b) Muslims built mosques over Hindu pagan temples: http://www.flex.com/~jai/satyamevajayate/temple1.html
2) they built a mosque over the Temple of Solomon
3) they reused Churches as mosques in many instances

[MaximiIian]

blah blah blah conspiracy theory blather

many Catholic churches are adorned with images of Mary with child.

No duh. The mother of a religion's messiah guy is a pretty damn important figure.

The image of Mary with child is a thinly veiled iconography of the image of Isis and Horus.

No, it's not. It's a patently obvious iconography of Jesus and his freaking mother.

Why do Catholics say "Amen"?

It's a Hebrew phrase meaning "I believe". End of story.

Catholicism is certainly a pagan religion; a thinly veiled one at that.

Excuse me? As a member of an actual pagan religion, I can tell you right off the bat that Catholicism is not even close to being pagan. Whether because of the inherent definition of "pagan" being "not Abrahamic", or the polytheism thing that paganism generally has. And don't start bringing in the usual arguments about Mary and the Saints; Catholics don't really worship those figures.
I'm a polytheist; I know what polytheism is; Catholicism is not it.

Another thing that Catholicism doesn't realise is that the Catholic religion; the orthodox of Christianity had competed with the Isis cult in the Roman empire.

No, most people realise that. Christianity also competed against many other mystery cults; and won out in the end. This shouldn't be surprising to anyone who has been born in the past thousand and a half years.

My bet is that the early orthodox Christian movement had converted pagans but to do so the Christian cult had to incorporate pagan doctrines, that of the cult of the mother and child, Mary/Isis/Jesus/Horus.

And your bet would be wrong. Christianity adopted festival days and cultural customs from existing European cultures. But they adopted nothing in the way of doctrine and dogma. The simple fact is, Christianity views Mary as an important figure because she is the mother of the person they hold to be god incarnate. There is absolutely no evidence for a connection to Isis and Horus.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

The Catholic Church has perverted many things, but not with Egyptian gods and what-not. Thats a little far-fetched.

[Phier]

The Catholic "Amen" which is often repeated after a verse is an invocation of the god Amun. A little known fact about this god reveals that the Hebrew "Amen" (aMN) and the Arabic "Amin" confirms the Egyptian view of Amun/Amen (MN) as the "Mysterious One" or WHu. Amun was also known as Yah amunou = YHWH. The name of Amun was supposed to be hidden (and hence "Mysterious One" ) and that's why the name was regarded as taboo by the priests at Thebes. Thebes in the Bible was known as "No-Amon", the City of Amun.

Amon in Arabic is Amin, and Amin is identical in translation to the Hebrew Amen, the word invocated in Catholicism.

The Hebrew translation of Amen as "So be it"may indeed be a distraction. We find many exampes of this when we discover the names of place in Egypt in the Hebrew language. Many Egyptian place names have been altered by the Hebrew translation. And many names of Egyptian kings have been misinterpreted and schewed. The Bible contains anachronisms of names and place names, as well as names of places masquerading as names of Egyptian gods.
.

The word Amen (pronounced /ˌɑːˈmɛn/ or /ˌeɪˈmɛn/; Hebrew: אָמֵן, Modern Amen Tiberian ’Amen ; Arabic: آمين‎, ’Āmīn ; "So be it; truly") is a declaration of affirmation[1][2] found in the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. Its use in Judaism dates back to its earliest texts.[3] It has been generally adopted in Christian worship as a concluding word for prayers and hymns.[2] In Islam, it is the standard ending to Dua (supplication). Common English translations of the word amen include: "Verily", "Truly", "So be it", and "Let it be." It can also be used colloquially to express strong agreement,[2] as in, for instance, amen to that.[4]

Oh snap!

[My Favorite Martian]

cult of Shamash

The grot contains some remains of a Mitras installation, afaik, from some previous users of the spot.

The Hebrew translation of Amen as "So be it"may indeed be a distraction.

In the Kaddish de Rabbanan, that is an important jewish prayer, it says in the last verses: The One who has made peace in His Heights. He in His mercifulness (pl.) will create peace over us and over all Israel. You (pl.)* shall answer (imperativus): It's truely the case.

The old egyptian god is in Arabic: آمون(Amun).

Amen ("it's truely the case") is in Arabic:





* "You" is the community.

[Dracula]

Do the muslims believe in Jesus because islam is a christian cult ? Is his inclusion in islam derivative from the catholic pantheon of saints ?

[Ashkenaz]

You know what, I'll skip the starting conspiracy-sounding bit about the vatican, because I have no idea about that.

But being a native Hebrew speaker, I have this to say:

Amen (hebrew: אמן) means agreement, "true" "so be it" etc. It comes from Aramaic, in which it means "Truth". Indeed, Hebrew has taken alot from Aramaic, even moreso in the Jewish prayers. It even sounds similiar to the Hebrew Emet (Hebrew for "truth").

"because "Zion" was supposed to be located first in Egypt as "the city of On" whom the Greeks called Heliopolis "On", in Hebrew: Zi'on, the City of On."

Wait, what? Zi'on doesn't mean city of On. "Zi" (technically tzi, since it's spelled with a Tzadi) doesn't mean city, or any of it's variations. If you really insist, it means "navy" or "naval armada", and it's a much more modern word in Hebrew.

Get off my Hebrew, it did nothing wrong to you.