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    nopasties's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/us.../23cia.html?hp
    Report Provides New Details on C.I.A. Prisoner Abuse
    By MARK MAZZETTI
    Published: August 22, 2009
    WASHINGTON — A Central Intelligence Agency inspector general’s report set to be released Monday provides new details about abuses that took place inside the agency’s secret prisons, including details of how C.I.A. officers carried out mock executions and threatened at least one prisoner with a gun and a power drill.
    Skip to next paragraph Associated Press
    A report by the C.I.A.’s inspector general, to be released Monday, says that the agency’s officers threatened Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri with a gun and a power drill in a secret prison.

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    U.S. Shifts, Giving Names of Detainees to the Red Cross (August 23, 2009)



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    Associated Press
    Mr. Nashiri was implicated in the bombing of the Navy destroyer Cole in 2000.



    C.I.A. jailers at different times held the handgun and the drill close to the detainee, Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, threatening to harm him if he did not cooperate with his interrogators, a government official familiar with the contents of the report said.
    Mr. Nashiri, who was implicated in the bombing of the Navy destroyer Cole in 2000, was one of two C.I.A. detainees whose interrogation sessions were videotaped — tapes that were destroyed by C.I.A. officers in 2005. It is unclear whether the threats with the gun and the power drill were documented on the tapes.
    In a separate episode detailed in the report — completed in 2004 by the inspector general, John L. Helgerson, but emerging now after a lawsuit by the American Civil Liberties Union forced its release — C.I.A. officers fired a gunshot in a room next to a detainee, leading the prisoner to believe that a second detainee had been killed.
    It is a violation of the federal torture statute to threaten a detainee with imminent death.
    The C.I.A. declined to comment on specifics of the report, which were first reported Friday evening by Newsweek.
    Paul Gimigliano, a C.I.A. spokesman, said: “The C.I.A. in no way endorsed behavior — no matter how infrequent — that went beyond the formal guidance. This has all been looked at; professionals in the Department of Justice decided if and when to pursue prosecution.”
    A federal prosecutor is now investigating the destruction of the C.I.A. tapes, but the Justice Department has thus far declined to open a formal investigation into the abuses in C.I.A. prisons.
    That may be about to change, as Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. is considering whether to appoint a prosecutor to examine the allegations in Mr. Helgerson’s report, and to investigate a number of cases where detainees died in C.I.A. custody.
    President Obama has insisted that C.I.A. officers who adhered to Justice Department interrogation guidelines should escape prosecution, and Mr. Holder is not expected to single out Justice Department lawyers who approved the brutal interrogation techniques.
    This would give any future investigation a somewhat narrow mandate: aiming only at C.I.A. officers who carried out abuses that exceed the interrogation guidelines.
    Mr. Helgerson’s report is said to document in grim detail a number of abuse cases, and its release on Monday is likely to reinvigorate a partisan debate on Capitol Hill.

    Even as White House officials say that they are hesitant to dwell on the detainee abuse during the Bush administration, the A.C.L.U. lawsuit has forced officials to make public a number of classified documents from that era.
    Besides the inspector general’s report, other documents expected to be released Monday are a 2007 Justice Department memo reauthorizing the C.I.A.’s “enhanced” interrogation techniques, documents that former Vice President Dick Cheney has said provide evidence that the interrogation methods produced valuable information about Al Qaeda; and Justice Department memos from 2006 concerning conditions of confinement in C.I.A. jails.
    In Mr. Nashiri’s case, military prosecutors announced in July 2008 that they would seek the death penalty as they brought war crimes charges against him. He has been held at the prison camp in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, and is suspected of helping to plan the bombing of the Cole, an attack that killed 17 sailors.
    Mr. Nashiri is a Saudi who has long been described by American officials as Al Qaeda’s operations chief in the Persian Gulf and the primary planner of the October 2000 attack on the Cole.
    Mr. Nashiri is one of three detainees who the C.I.A. has acknowledged were subjected to waterboarding. Mr. Nashiri was interrogated in the agency’s secret prisons before he was transferred to Guantánamo in 2006.
    In announcing the charges, which will be heard by the Bush administration’s military commission tribunals at Guantánamo, the Pentagon official, Brig. Gen. Thomas W. Hartmann, appeared to back away from years of assertions by American officials about Mr. Nashiri when he was asked at a news conference if Mr. Nashiri was suspected of being the primary planner or mastermind of the Cole attack.
    “I’m not going to say either of those,” General Hartmann said. “I’m going to say he helped to plan and organize and direct the attacks.”
    Even though Obama seems to still consent to many Bush policies, he is now allowing the release of names tothe Red Cross
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/wo...1&ref=politics
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    WASHINGTON — In a reversal of Pentagon policy, the military for the first time is notifying the International Committee of the Red Cross of the identities of militants who were being held in secret at a camp in Iraq and another in Afghanistan run by United States Special Operations forces, according to three military officials.
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    Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images
    Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, reminded commanders of the need to treat detainees properly.

    Related

    Report Provides New Details on C.I.A. Prisoner Abuse (August 23, 2009)

    Times Topics: United States Special Operations Command




    The change begins to lift the veil from the American government’s most secretive remaining overseas prisons by allowing the Red Cross to track the custody of dozens of the most dangerous suspected terrorists and foreign fighters plucked off the battlefields in Iraq and Afghanistan.
    It is a major advance for the organization in its long fight to gain more information about these detainees. The military had previously insisted that disclosing any details about detainees at the secretive camps could tip off other militants and jeopardize counterterrorism missions.
    Detention practices will be in the spotlight this week. The Central Intelligence Agency on Monday is to release a highly critical 2004 report on the agency’s interrogation program by the C.I.A. inspector general.
    The long awaited report provides new details about abuses that took place inside the agency’s secret prisons, including C.I.A. officers carrying out mock executions and threatening at least one prisoner with a gun and a power drill.
    Also, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. is expected to decide in the next several days whether to appoint a criminal prosecutor to investigate the interrogations of suspects accused of being involved in terrorism after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
    The new Pentagon policy on detainees took effect this month with no public announcement from the military or the Red Cross. It represents another shift in detention policy by the Obama administration, which has already vowed to close the American military prison at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, by next year and is conducting reviews of the government’s procedures for interrogating and detaining militants.
    A spokesman for the Red Cross in Washington, Bernard Barrett, declined to comment on the new notification policy, citing the organization’s longstanding practice of refusing to talk about its discussions with the Defense Department about detention issues.
    Unlike the secret prisons run by the C.I.A. that President Obama ordered closed in January, the military continues to operate the Special Operations camps, which it calls temporary screening sites, in Balad, Iraq, and Bagram, Afghanistan.
    As many as 30 to 40 foreign prisoners have been held at the camp in Iraq at any given time, military officials said; they did not provide an estimate for the Afghan camp but suggested that the number was smaller.
    The Red Cross is allowed access to almost all American military prisons and battlefield detention sites in Iraq and Afghanistan, but the Special Operations camps have been excluded.
    The New York Times reported in 2006 that some soldiers at the temporary detention site in Iraq, then located at Baghdad International Airport and called Camp Nama, beat prisoners with rifle butts, yelled and spit in their faces, and used detainees for target practice in a game of jailer paintball.
    Military officials say conditions at the camps have improved significantly since then, but virtually all details of the sites remain shrouded in secrecy.
    Under Pentagon rules, detainees at the Special Operations camps can be held for up to two weeks. Formerly, the military at that point had to release a detainee; transfer him to a long-term prison in Iraq or Afghanistan, to which the Red Cross has broad access; or seek one-week renewable extensions from Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates or his representative.
    Under the new policy, the military must notify the Red Cross of the detainees’ names and identification numbers within two weeks of capture, a notification that before happened only after a detainee was transferred to a long-term prison. The option to seek custody extensions has been eliminated, a senior Pentagon official said.
    Pentagon officials sought to play down the significance of the shift, saying that most detainees at the camps had already been registered with the Red Cross within the two-week period.
    “The department makes every effort to register detainees with the I.C.R.C. as soon as practicable after capture,” said Bryan G. Whitman, a Defense Department spokesman.
    But human rights advocates hailed the policy change, saying that Special Operations forces had often extended the custody of detainees, leaving them in a legal limbo for weeks on end.
    “Any improvement in I.C.R.C. notification and access is a positive development because it not only accounts for the whereabouts of a person, but hopefully will expedite notification to the family who is left anxious wondering about the fate of his or her relative,” said Sahr MuhammedAlly, a senior associate for law and security at Human Rights First, an advocacy group. The change in notifying the Red Cross stemmed largely from a new climate that emerged after Mr. Obama’s election, military officials said. The new administration set out the larger goal to revamp detention and interrogation practices that had drawn international condemnation under the Bush administration.
    Into this environment stepped Gen. David H. Petraeus, newly selected to lead the Central Command of American military operations in the Middle East. When he was the top commander in Iraq, General Petraeus supported ideas promoted by Maj. Gen. Douglas M. Stone to overhaul the detention system there, separating hard-core militants from petty criminals who could be easily radicalized, offering detainees vocational training and family visits. The United States is now adopting this approach to revamp the Afghan prison system.
    This spring, based on a request by General Petraeus, Mr. Gates ordered a review of the Special Operations camps. Lt. Gen. Philip M. Breedlove, an Air Force officer who had served on the military’s Joint Staff in Washington, spent several weeks in Afghanistan and Iraq examining the sites. At the request of Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Breedlove also accompanied Special Operations teams on some of their missions to observe how they treated prisoners at the point of capture.
    In July, Admiral Mullen sent a confidential message to all of the military service chiefs and senior field commanders asking them to redouble their efforts to alert troops to the importance of treating detainees properly.
    Admiral Mullen felt compelled to issue his message after viewing photographs documenting abuse of prisoners in Iraq and Afghanistan by American military personnel in the early years of the wars, a senior military official said.
    Mr. Obama decided in May not to make the photographs public, warning that the images could ignite attacks against American troops.
    In a classified report dated June 17, General Breedlove largely praised the conditions at the camps. He found only minor problems, including a failure to provide a Koran to each detainee, and a lack of arrows or other symbols indicating which direction Muslim prisoners should face to pray toward Mecca.
    Military officials acknowledged that the Special Operations forces might have improved conditions to impress the visiting investigator. But one of the general’s recommendations surprised officials: provide more information about detainees at the camps to the Red Cross earlier in the detention process.
    The Red Cross has been lobbying the Pentagon for years for access to those held at the Special Operations camps, or least information about who is being detained in them. General Breedlove’s recommendation gave the group’s efforts a prominent military endorsement.


    Since the US is still doing many of Bush's old policies I feel this is relevant. The second story is the change, hopefully the last. Personally I could care less about guilty militants or terrorists. The problem is the ways the US uses to capture many of these people is not perfect. Many of the Afgani militants were turned in by rival tribes. Some of the people from Iraq were imprisoned becuse the US did not know Arabic during the early stages from what I recall. Anyways discuss.

  2. #2
    spartan117's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    It is actually quite amusing nobody offers any opinion of any persuasion in this thread. I thought this was rather important news.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32547884...hington_post//

    Threatening to sexually assault family members in front of the detainee? Killing children?

    _ CIA operatives used "unauthorized, improvised, inhumane and undocumented detention and interrogation techniques" that went even farther than the already permissive Justice Department legal opinions allowed.

    _ Interrogators told 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed that "if anything else happens in the United States, 'We're going to kill your children,'" one veteran officer said in the report.

    An officer who said he'd never been trained in interrogating repeatedly pinched the carotid artery of a detainee until he started to pass out, then shook him awake.

    _ Interrogators stepped up their use of waterboarding beyond the stimulated drowning tactics authorized by lawyers. One of the interrogators continuously poured large volumes of water on a cloth covering a detainee's mouth and nose. He acknowledged it was different from the methods that had been approved and said that's because it was "for real."

    _ Some CIA officials said the agency had limited intelligence on al-Qaida and very little understanding about what senior leaders knew. So when it came time to conduct interrogations, analysts could only speculate about what a detainee "should know."

    _ Capturing and interrogating terrorism suspects helped warn officials of terrorist plots and provided important intelligence. "In this regard, there is no doubt that the program has been effective." Measuring the effectiveness of waterboarding and other extreme tactics, however, "is a more subjective process and not without some concern."
    _ One CIA officer expressed concern that agency officers would some day wind up on a "wanted list" to appear in court for war crimes. Another said, "Ten years from now we're going to be sorry we're doing this ... (but) it has to be done."
    _ Interrogators conducted at least one mock execution to try to scare a prisoner into talking. Mock executions are a violation of U.S. anti-torture laws.
    _ Even after interrogators believed terrorism suspect Abu Zubaydah to be cooperative, CIA officials at headquarters pressured them to keep waterboarding.
    _ While questioning Abd al-Nashiri, a suspect of the 2000 USS Cole bombing, an interrogator hinted that officials would sexually assault al-Nashiri's mother in front of him. The interrogator pretended to be a member of a Middle East intelligence agency believed to use such a tactic. "We could get your mother in here," the interrogator said. "We can bring your family in here."

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    Default Re: The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan117 View Post
    It is actually quite amusing nobody offers any opinion of any persuasion in this thread. I thought this was rather important news.
    There's no real opinion to add. What...are people going to disagree that what was done was wrong? The real fun is in the appointing of the special prosecutor.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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    spartan117's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
    There's no real opinion to add. What...are people going to disagree that what was done was wrong? The real fun is in the appointing of the special prosecutor.
    Well.....this goes back to inquires about torture back a few years already. People were advocating for waterboarding as a method for interrogation and/or the necessity of having what many would consider dubious methods of questioning. And for some quite astonishing release of methods used that have not been known before, I would imagine a topic would have much more traffic rather than some 4 comments or so over the course of a few days.

    Quite provocative indeed...

    Nobody has any comments on the new group charged with handling detainees and answering to the FBI leaving the CIA out of the loop?

    Nothing about the special prosecutor neither in any other threads. I am perplexed.

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    Default Re: The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    Quote Originally Posted by spartan117 View Post
    Nothing about the special prosecutor neither in any other threads. I am perplexed.
    He's got a whole thread dedicated to him.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

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    Bleda's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    The Obama administration needs a distraction. So the plan is to create a lot of fuss over some guy that should have been shot in the head immediatly after he outlived his purpose.


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    Default Re: The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    Quote Originally Posted by Bleda View Post
    The Obama administration needs a distraction. So the plan is to create a lot of fuss over some guy that should have been shot in the head immediatly after he outlived his purpose.
    If the law doesnt apply here, then you open the door to it applying nowhere.

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    Default Re: The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    Hate to be Rumsfeld right now.

    Formerly Tiberias

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    Default Re: The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiberias View Post
    Hate to be Rumsfeld right now.
    I recall Obama cover the bush admin againt trail not long ago, right? When he did that, I just lost all this "magical hope" coming out of his mouth. Because without a prosecution, some of the top level admin can do the same, a new president can order patriot act II.

    I remember when cheney advocated about this on about every fox-type-of channel not long ago:
    Besides the inspector general’s report, other documents expected to be released Monday are a 2007 Justice Department memo reauthorizing the C.I.A.’s “enhanced” interrogation techniques, documents that former Vice President Dick Cheney has said provide evidence that the interrogation methods produced valuable information about Al Qaeda; and Justice Department memos from 2006 concerning conditions of confinement in C.I.A. jails.
    A high level military staff comission(i don't remember the name right now), who had access to this document, said it was a pure BS.

    Any one got a direct link to this?
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; August 26, 2009 at 07:58 AM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













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    Nouvelle Vague's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: The Legacy and Ongoing Reality of "Enhanced" Interrogation

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackleaf-Wille View Post
    I recall Obama cover the bush admin againt trail not long ago, right? When he did that, I just lost all this "magical hope" coming out of his mouth. Because without a prosecution, some of the top level admin can do the same, a new president can order patriot act II.

    I remember when cheney advocated about this on about every fox-type-of channel not long ago:
    A high level military staff comission(i don't remember the name right now), who had access to this document, said it was a pure BS.

    Any one got a direct link to this?
    Havn't heard about that. If so they'll be going for the wrong people. Rumsfeld personally intervened in the writing of those orders, that allowed the harshest torture techniques ever used by the US.

    Looks like the politicians are let off the nook once again.

    Formerly Tiberias

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