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  1. #1
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    Default Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    I saw this article in Time a few weeks ago but didnt get the time to discuss it with youse guys
    now admittedly i enjoy using Time magazine as toilet paper when i run out of Newsweek, but
    anyhoo,
    it concerns me that far right parties are becoming quite popular in several European countries eg romania, Hungary, former eatsern bloc countries etc and as we saw in the last EU elections where a lot of Far right groups gained seats in the EU parliament...
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Ideologues can parody themselves more effectively than any satirist. Nick Griffin, leader of the British National Party, is sipping sparkling water in a hotel lounge and comparing himself to Mahatma Gandhi. The BNP aims to send nonwhite Britons "home." At private BNP rallies, Griffin, convicted in 1998 of incitement to racial hatred, warns adherents that Muslim men are plotting to defile underage British girls, peppering his invective with concocted statistics such as this one: "The average racist murderer in this country is 40 times more likely to be a member of an ethnic minority than the other way round." It's safe to say that a resemblance to India's icon of peaceable nationalism isn't immediately obvious. The link turns out to be distributism, a philosophy opposed to big government and big corporations alike and a formative influence for both men, according to Griffin. "[Distributism] took Gandhi in a very similar direction — mutatis mutandis obviously," he says. "I'm not going to wear a loincloth, you'll be pleased to hear."



    The floppy-haired 50-year-old looks every inch the country gent as TIME sets out to photograph him against the picture-pretty backdrop of Welshpool, a market town near his home in rural Wales. Hardscrabble neighborhoods are the BNP's core recruiting grounds, but Griffin also finds a hero's welcome in this green and pleasant land. "Good on you, mate!" bellows an admirer, craning dangerously from a top-floor window as an old man sprints over to glad-hand his idol and motorists honk their appreciation from passing cars. (Read "European Elections: A Blow to Brown, Boost for Merkel.")
    Far-right parties are attracting applause in many corners of Europe these days. Almost a million British voters honked their horns for the BNP in June's European elections, giving the party its first two seats in the European Parliament and a corresponding boost to legitimacy and funding. In the Netherlands, Geert Wilders' Partij voor de Vrijheid (Party for Freedom, PVV) elbowed aside centrist rivals to grab second place in the Netherlands' Euro poll. Around Europe a ragbag of extremist parties, as varied as the countries that produced them yet united by a vehement nationalism that singles out minority groups as a growing threat, scored in Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Latvia, Romania and Slovakia. Confronted with sliding economies and disappearing jobs, voters kicked the mainstream parties they held most responsible.
    This wasn't a simple protest vote, even if bruised centrist politicians were quick to dismiss the results. Over the years, far-right fortunes have surged, only to ebb as the parties have shot themselves in the jackboot with internal feuds and rickety organization. Now outfits such as the BNP are learning from past mistakes: they're slicker, and combine old-fashioned grassroots activism with Internet campaign techniques borrowed from the Obama playbook. They're also well placed to exploit the disillusionment with traditional politics that has seen voter turnouts in European and national elections plummet, and membership of big parties dwindle. As the global economy limps along and Western nations struggle to balance the needs of longtime citizens and newer immigrants, nobody should doubt that the far right is well positioned to attract yet more followers. (Read: "Europe's Voters Reward the Right.")
    For those who believe that this would be a catastrophe, the urgent question is how best to contain the surge. Deny far-right leaders the oxygen of publicity? Tricky — they have a democratic mandate. Confront them? That risks casting them as martyrs, victims who tell unpalatable truths. Expose the racism that often underlies professions of patriotism? Well, yes, but that assumes voters choose far-right parties in ignorance of their views, rather than because they strike a chord. Steal their nationalist thunder by taking tough lines on issues such as immigration? This smacks of capitulation to the very ideas critics seek to defeat.
    To help cut through this muddle, TIME looks at four parties — the BNP, France's Front National (FN), Hungary's Jobbik and the PVV — their sometimes clashing ideologies and policies, and the misjudgments of mainstream opponents that have helped boost their extremist appeal.
    Blaming Islam
    Last December, Wilders addressed a Jerusalem conference called Facing Jihad. "The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present," he intoned. "The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion." If these phrases seem familiar, that's because they're borrowed from Abraham Lincoln, who framed them as civil war raged in the U.S. a century and a half ago.
    These days Wilders, 45, charismatic, shock-haired and articulate, warns of a 
 different sort of conflict between Dutch Muslims and the rest of his country's citizens. Many of his arguments begin with the events of Sept. 11, 2001, and the ensuing "war on terror," which have helped create a toxic alchemy that has given a new focus to far-right politics in the Netherlands and elsewhere. (Read: "Is Islam Growing More Militant?")
    The Dutch, who pride themselves on their tolerance and inclusive attitudes, have been shocked to discover that many Muslims in the Netherlands feel dispossessed and discriminated against, and that some even empathize with jihadis. As in Britain, where English-born bombers have planned or carried out a series of attacks over the past few years, the sense of alienation in the Muslim community is reflected not just in the terrorists' rage but also in moderate Muslims' readiness to believe conspiracy theories that pin blame for 9/11 and other attacks on Western governments. Dutch citizens, in turn, have become more suspicious of Muslim neighbors, resentful that Dutch hospitality has seemingly counted for nothing.
    It's tough to build bridges across such a chasm of mutual suspicion — and much easier to exploit it. Wilders has long played on fears of the enemy within. Only 5% of the Dutch population — around 850,000 people — is Muslim. But Dutch Muslim communities are highly visible, being concentrated in urban areas, and their birthrates outstrip those of the wider community. "Islam wants to dominate every part of life and society," says Wilders. "It does not want to integrate or assimilate."

    The Netherlands' historically relaxed immigration policies have already tightened up since the 2002 election of Jan Peter Balkenende's conservative coalition. The PVV leader proposes going further by halting all immigration from non-Western countries, banning the Koran and deporting any Muslim who breaks the law. His rhetoric recalls Pim Fortuyn, the Dutch politician gunned down in 2002, days before an election that would almost certainly have given him a parliamentary platform to air his hard-line views on immigration. Fortuyn's friend and compatriot Theo van Gogh was working on a film about Fortuyn's assassination when he himself was murdered in 2004. His killer, a Dutch Muslim of Moroccan descent angered by Submission, Van Gogh's polemic against Islam, left a note on the body signed "Saifu Deen al-Muwahhied." Wilders had been threatened in a letter with the same signature (which means "Unifying sword of religion") earlier that year. He still receives 24-hour police protection. "I lost my freedom," says Wilders. "It is a very high price to pay."


    That's undoubtedly true. Wilders says he sleeps in a different location every night. But the image of the brave outsider, prepared to tell the truth and hang the consequences, has also proved a potent electoral tool. "[Wilders] says what others don't dare to say," says Gil Timmermans, a 39-year-old car mechanic who voted for the PVV. "I'm not a racist, but if the Muslims get their way, it could be the end of our Dutch way of life." (Read: "Gunned Down.")
    Slick and Mostly Polished
    Nationalists often speak of the importance of preserving their national culture. But the cultures they describe are often mythic. It is amid the rubble of discarded beer cans and the bleakness of northern English housing estates that never knew a genteel past that the BNP finds its most enthusiastic support. It is also in exactly such areas that disenchantment with mainstream politics — intensified in Britain by the recent scandal over MPs' expenses — is at its most profound.
    During 12 years in power, the Labour Party has raised living standards for many low-income families, but Britain remains one of the most unequal countries in the developed world. Labour's repositioning as New Labour, a party of middle England, also left swathes of its traditional working-class voters with a sense that their own party had abandoned them. In June, these voters proved most susceptible to the BNP's promises of better representation for "the invisible majority" of white citizens and a stop to immigration and asylum. Similar conditions and promises boosted the Front National's first-round tally in last month's municipal elections in Hénin-Beaumont, a down-at-heel town in northwestern France and former Socialist Party stronghold. (Read: "Labour Pains: Gordon Brown is Running Out of Time.")
    Without big national platforms and regular media access, far-right parties rely heavily on door-to-door campaigning and local meetings. The bigger parties ignore such old-fashioned techniques at their peril, says Eric Pickles, chairman of Britain's Conservative Party. "You've got a kind of [mainstream politician] representing those estates who didn't grow up on them, doesn't know them well and visits like a political tourist." Mainstream parties have "got to re-engage the population," he says. "You can't write the people off who voted BNP as all being Nazis. It's neglect."
    The BNP and its ilk bear out P.T. Barnum's aphorism that there is no such thing as bad publicity. Modern right-wing parties are smart enough to know that every criticism, every scandal, every court case, every article — including this one — is liable to send visitors to their websites, which could help them recruit members and raise funds. "The Obama campaign was brilliant. We learned a lot from it," says Griffin. So much, in fact, that online antiracist campaign Hope Not Hate has turned to Blue State Digital, an Internet consultancy that worked on the Obama campaign, to mobilize activists against the BNP by explaining that the party's smooth public image conceals a racist agenda. "It's very easy to attack a party that has a swastika as its emblem," says Sonia Gable, one of the founders of the campaign. "The BNP doesn't do that." (Read: "How Stereotypes Defeat the Stereotyped.")
    The BNP has also learned to turn attacks against it to its advantage. Britain's Equality and Human Rights Commission is currently investigating complaints that the BNP is breaching the law because it admits only "indigenous Caucasians" as members and employees. Griffin defines that group as "of English, Irish, Scottish or Welsh descent, or closely related, assimilated European peoples" but can only name one nonwhite Briton — a mixed-race comedian called Charlie Williams — whose British roots go far enough back that the BNP would consider him for membership. Williams died in 2006. But while the EHRC has a statutory duty to follow up on the complaints it has received, it is doing so without enthusiasm, concerned that it could deliver a propaganda coup to the BNP. Griffin relishes high-profile denunciations. "When Gordon Brown urges people not to vote for us, it's manna from heaven. It's smashing stuff," he says. (See pictures of Gordon Brown.)
    Xenophobia Now
    Far-right parties in western Europe tend to steer away from signs and symbols that might recall the darkest period of the continent's history. But Hungary's Jobbik — its name derives from job, a word meaning "right" or "better" — garnered 14.8% of the votes in the country's European elections with a campaign themed around the Arpad stripes, the nationalist flag that was co-opted by Hungarian fascists in the 1930s and 1940s. The party's chairman, Gabor Vona, 30, also chaired the Magyar Garda — or Hungarian Guard — a private militia that appeared at Jobbik rallies and marched through scores of Hungarian villages as part of its self-proclaimed mandate to protect "ethnic Hungarians" against the 6%-10% of the population of 10 million that are ethnically Roma, or gypsy. Vona was briefly detained by police at a July 4 rally called to protest a court order banning the Garda, which has now "relaunched" itself by adding the word Movement to its name. Despite police threats to charge Garda leaders with breaking the court order, Vona has promised to wear the group's uniform to the Hungarian parliament if, as polls project, he wins a seat in elections to be held within the next 10 months. "The radicalization of the extreme right 
 in Hungary has become a fact. They are now breaking the law," says Krisztian Szabados, director of the Budapest-based think tank Political Capital.

    Jobbik may look different to its corporatized Western European counterparts, but it's being lifted by the same underlying forces: fears of invasive foreign cultures and of global competition, and a profound disaffection with mainstream politics. The excitement with which Hungarians embraced multiparty politics after the fall of Communism has curdled, with confidence in mainstream parties damaged by their perceived failure to tackle the country's economic woes. "It is a kind of vacuum," says Attila Pok, a historian with the Institute of History at the Hungarian Academy of Sciences in Budapest. "A great number of voters do not believe in the established élite, either on the right or left. They voted for the newest, loudest and most clearly speaking platform."




    Jobbik's platform is plain and simple: it is distrustful of outsiders, opposes foreign ownership of agricultural land and is proudly Christian. After the group was founded in 2003, it erected crosses across the country in protest against the foreign commercialization of Christmas. "We provide the most authentic and clearest answer for problems," says Vona. "And we express the wish of a lot of people that Hungary should belong to Hungarians." (Read: "Murder Mystery: Who's Killing Hungary's Gypsies?")
    France Goes Its Own Way
    The Front National is the big beast of Europe's far right. It was France's third-largest political party for much of this decade, and its leader Jean-Marie Le Pen was runner-up in the 2002 French presidential elections. So in June the party might have expected to harness the perfect storm of rising unemployment, economic insecurity and the racial tensions that have disfigured French society to sail to a historic victory in the European elections. Instead, the FN's share of the vote tumbled, reducing its tally of seats from seven in 2004 to three. "Times of unhappiness tend to favor extremist parties," says Dominique Reynié, director of Paris-based think tank Foundation for Political Innovation. "This time people judged the crisis as sufficiently grave that they stuck with mainstream parties they felt best placed to move things ahead." (Read: "Europe's Voters Reward the Right.")
    But there's another reason why support for the FN has fallen. President Nicolas Sarkozy has cut the ground from underneath the far right by taking a tough stance on issues such as integration and immigration, while presiding over the most ethnically diverse Cabinet that France has ever seen. Sarkozy set an annual target for deportations of illegal immigrants; last month he criticized the burqa as "a sign of subservience" that he said is not welcome in France. That has helped him reclaim turf that the FN has long monopolized. "He speaks unapologetically of battling illegal immigration ... He talks about national identity and French tradition," says Reynié. (Read: "Will France Impose a Ban on the Burqa?")
    Many opponents of the far right — even those on the center right — are queasy at the idea of defeating extremist upstarts by moving into their territory. "I don't think you can beat the BNP by pandering to their views on immigration, though there are some siren voices," says Pickles. That hasn't stopped the Conservatives and other centrist parties from falling into bouts of my-policy-is-tougher-than-yours posturing. The Conservative Party also raised eyebrows with its choice of allies in the European Parliament: a new right-wing grouping chaired by Polish MEP Michal Kaminski, a former member of two hard-right parties. But Pickles says the key to winning the argument against extremism is to take it back to grassroots. "The only way to deal with [the far right] is by local politicians championing their neighborhoods and being very proud that they represent their electors," he says. (Read: "David Cameron: UK's Next Leader?")
    Localism matters, as Hénin-Beaumont illustrates. Just three weeks after the European elections, the former mining town, a traditional fiefdom of the French left, bucked the national trend to give the FN a convincing lead in the first round of municipal elections. The party was boosted by the presence on the trail of Marine Le Pen, the 40-year-old daughter of FN leader Jean-Marie and widely tipped as his successor. This thoroughly modern incarnation of the far right supports equal rights for women, is pro-choice on abortion, and talks of creating a "French Islam" to integrate France's Muslim community. Just as mainstream politics can co-opt the rhetoric of the far right, Le Pen shows that the far right is learning to wrap itself in the language of reason.
    Just how powerful might the far right become? Such parties are now in a position to influence European legislation, though most advocate withdrawal from the European Union. Addressing a Jobbik rally last year, the BNP's Griffin invoked the memory of Hungary's 1956 revolution, suppressed by Stalinist troops. "Where is the power hunger and the corruption of the Soviet kleptocracy now? ... It is in Brussels," he said. "The European Union is a threat to all the free peoples of Europe."
    Politicians who feed off antiforeign sentiment at home can find it hard to cuddle up to foreigners abroad. The BNP's attempt to establish a far-right bloc in the Parliament foundered. The largest far-right party in the Parliament, Italy's Lega Nord, which serves in Silvio Berlusconi's coalition government, chose to throw in its lot with a medley of Euro-skeptic parties, while the PVV refused to enter any alliance. Opponents would be unwise to take comfort from this apparent disunity. Far-right parties view the European Parliament primarily as a platform from which to launch runs for their domestic legislatures. Their expanding ambitions will bring new pressures: closer attention and the need to recruit more — and more plausible — candidates. They may yet overreach themselves. But hoping that they do is not a policy adequate to the threat they pose.
    With reporting by Leo Cendrowicz / The Hague, Bruce Crumley / Paris and John Nadler / Budapest



    source: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...3651-1,00.html

    Discuss

  2. #2

    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    hooha
    “All things have sprung from nothing and are borne forward to infinity. Who can follow out such an astonishing career? The Author of these wonders, and He alone, can comprehend them.” - Blaise Pascal
    To see a world in a grain of sand,
    And a heaven in a wild flower,
    Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
    And eternity in an hour.


  3. #3
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    I ask myself everyday:

    What would republican Jesus do?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    i find myself wondering, whether or not this might mean a new wave of neo-fascism
    but then and again
    some europeans do feel disenfranchised by what they feel is their gov. ignoring their will in regards to immigration policy

  5. #5
    Primicerius
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    political and governing systems can last as long as..well until the gov't is destroyed. but it is the people in charge who makes or break the system.

    if the politicians are corrupt heads, the opposite form of gov't will appear. like roman republic, to emperor. the Tsar to the communist USSR..

  6. #6

    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    I'd guess the trend in Eastern Europe has to do with Western Europe, and the western world in general heading into a leftist direction, whilst Eastern europe had been living under leftist dictatorship for most of the 20th century, they feel a far-right position is the only position left against socialism.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauvin View Post
    I'd guess the trend in Eastern Europe has to do with Western Europe, and the western world in general heading into a leftist direction, whilst Eastern europe had been living under leftist dictatorship for most of the 20th century, they feel a far-right position is the only position left against socialism.

    except that the far right aren't camaigning against socialism.... Also, didn't you rea the article, the far right is in part rising because the socialist parties have stopped being socialist.
    Last edited by justicar5; August 23, 2009 at 05:12 AM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauvin View Post
    I'd guess the trend in Eastern Europe has to do with Western Europe, and the western world in general heading into a leftist direction, whilst Eastern europe had been living under leftist dictatorship for most of the 20th century, they feel a far-right position is the only position left against socialism.
    ...

    What? You do realize, that many far right parties in Europe currently, have no objection against left wing economics or even adopt them?
    Last edited by Dr. Croccer; August 23, 2009 at 06:02 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  9. #9
    Orko's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    I have thought the PVV are actually leftist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus Aurelius
    Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Quote Originally Posted by orko View Post
    I have thought the PVV are actually leftist?
    Well, not that but they aren't opposed to the welfare state or insurance. They mainly want to introduce authoritarian and strict laws regarding crime, certain minorities and immigration. According to them, allochtonous citizens that commit a crime should be prohibited from using welfare.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  11. #11
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Quote Originally Posted by orko View Post
    I have thought the PVV are actually leftist?
    They don't call themselves left-wing.
    Plus, they physically sit at the most right sided seats in parliament. (although I'm not sure who chooses where each party sits)
    And when discussing coalitions, they only consider right-wing parties as possible coalition parties.
    So they are definitely not leftist.

    But these kind or parties are one-issue parties with no clear view on anything not related to immigration.
    For example: The PVV's plan to reduce traffic jams is to reduce the number of cars on the roads by banning Muslims from driving.



  12. #12
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Th
    For example: The PVV's plan to reduce traffic jams is to reduce the number of cars on the roads by banning Muslims from driving.
    You are making this up, aren't you?

    They are economically rightish.
    Wilders mastrubates to the USA (and Israel) daily...
    As for social issues he wants to create a sort of second britain:

    'WOW! Rejecting someone for his opinion!'
    'That's the kind of country I want!'

    As for the youths, it is 'cool' to support him and hate foreigner.
    Miss me yet?

  13. #13
    Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauvin View Post
    I'd guess the trend in Eastern Europe has to do with Western Europe, and the western world in general heading into a leftist direction, whilst Eastern europe had been living under leftist dictatorship for most of the 20th century, they feel a far-right position is the only position left against socialism.
    Wrong "guess".... lol For starters western Europe isn't drifting to the left at all(its fundamentals are relative leftist compared to the US). If anything its going to the right, not only because of these new party's like PVV, Vlaams Blok, the BNP etc, but it can be witnessed quite evidently in several aspects of society, politics and economics as well.

    In eastern-Europe its mostly because of the disappointment in the ruling center party's (both left and right + neo-liberalism). My guess is, that they even unconsciously miss the Soviet era, that at least brought some inner coherence to social/family life. Something people seem to miss because these new far right party's propagate this to the extreme.

    +then its always fun to gunt down de dirty Gypsy's as well...
    Last edited by Thorn777; August 23, 2009 at 07:18 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by snuggans View Post
    we can safely say that a % of those 130 were Houthi/Iranian militants that needed to be stopped unfortunately

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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    ONOZ
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    razor-'s Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Natural consequence of the mainstream parties reluctance to deal with hard topics such as immigration in my opinion.




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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    History repeats itself. Give them a few years, and no one will give a shite any more. It's nothign more than a fad, fuelled by journalistic incompetence and scaremongering, which is what qualifies for journalism these days.

    THE BNP got LESS votes in 2009 than it did in 2004. Yet the media CONVENIENTLY forgot to mention that. They prefer the;

    HOLY SHITE THE NAZIS ARE BACK, IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN!" Headlines.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gauvin View Post
    and the western world in general heading into a leftist direction,
    No it isn't. We've moved well away from socialism in the last 2 decades. Europe has been moving to the right for decades, to such an extent that to get elected left wing parties had to adopt right policies, like neo-liberal economics.
    whilst Eastern europe had been living under leftist dictatorship for most of the 20th century, they feel a far-right position is the only position left against socialism.
    Except the Far right in all these countries often espouse left wing economics. Like the BNP and the Austrian/German far right parties.
    Last edited by Каие; August 23, 2009 at 07:51 AM.

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    Syron's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    THE BNP got LESS votes in 2009 than it did in 2004. Yet the media CONVENIENTLY forgot to mention that.
    The BNP got 808,200 in 2004, they got 943,598 in 2009. That's an increase of about 140,000 on a reduced turnout, can you not count?

    Yes they got slightly fewer votes in the seats they won, but it was the North where turnout was disproportionately much lower anyway and the other parties suffered much worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by General Nuisance esq View Post
    what the media missed though was the emergance of UKIP in national politics
    UKIP voters will tend to go out and vote for European elections. If local elections are on the same day in their area UKIP will do comparatively well in them because their voters are already at the polling station!

    The opposite is true of the BNP and why for example their vote in Essex, where they stood a full slate, was about 50% higher than their European one for the area! BNP voters have tended to lend their vote to UKIP thinking that was their only chance to be represented. Hopefully that will change now.

    UKIP will sink back into obscurity for another 5 years.
    Last edited by Syron; August 23, 2009 at 12:45 PM.
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Syron View Post
    The BNP got 808,200 in 2004, they got 943,598 in 2009. That's an increase of 140,000 on a reduced turnout, can you not count?
    ...

    Yes they got slightly fewer votes in the seats they won
    ...

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    Syron's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    And you'll also see.......

    but it was the North where turnout was disproportionately much lower anyway and the other parties suffered much worse.
    Ahh, selective quoting, nothing like being a bit disingenuous to try and convince people you're right.

    In those seats, every other major party except for the Greens got fewer votes, doing much worse than the BNP in retaining their vote.

    The Greens only bucked the trend because of their failed "vote Green to stop the BNP".

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Yet the media CONVENIENTLY forgot to mention that.
    Oh and as for this nonsense, i'll think you'll find that was the first thing that was said on the Bastards Broadcasting Communism coverage of the elections by that insufferable tit Nick Robinson.
    Last edited by Syron; August 23, 2009 at 01:02 PM.
    Member and acting regent of the House of Kazak Borispavlovgrozny
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    Default Re: Europe: Resurrection of the Far Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Syron View Post
    And you'll also see.......

    Ahh, selective quoting, nothing like being a bit disingenuous to try and convince people you're right.

    In those seats, every other major party except for the Greens got fewer votes, doing much worse than the BNP in retaining their vote.

    The Greens only bucked the trend because of their failed "vote Green to stop the BNP".

    So remind me again... which bit of my post was false? I said, they got less votes. Everything else I possibly meant was left to your assumption.

    Oh and as for this nonsense, i'll think you'll find that was the first thing that was said on the Bastards Broadcasting Communism coverage of the elections by that insufferable tit Nick Robinson.
    I didn't watch the BBC on the night.


    PS. I can still you're sore that the BBC is still anti-BNP.

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