Dawkins to conquer the Muslim world

[Каие]

http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle6805889.ece

Now putting aside his arrogance... I support his little endeavour. It would be BRILLIANT if Dawkin's book ever got to the top spot in a Muslim country, it would prove a lot of things, and would in my opinion be beneficial.

But frankly, I don't even recognise his analysis of Muslims and evolution. Firstly, a Tunisian comments in the article page.

I do not know what the book but maybe something more shocking to muslims than simply the evolution theory. I myself come from Tunisia and studied until the "A Level" there. Now I am at Imperial College. In Tunisia we did study the evolution theory at high school and we did study everything you have studied here (actually the programs there are even heavier). Besides this, I watch the pan arabic channel Aljazeera broadcasting from the Golf and in they scientific documentaries they talk about the evolution theory as a scientific fact and about the age of the Earth. There is maybe something else in the book that these countries did not appreciate.

No one ever taught me to deny the theory of evolution, or support some nonsense 6 days theory or 6,000 year old earth theory or that dinosaurs are the handiwork of the devil.... in fact she gave me a book which fully supported the idea of evolution. The only thing the book made the argument for is where evolution and natural selection can fully prove the transitional evolution of life on earth... it doesn't at all account for the origin of consciousness. Hence making it possible to be a believer in evolution and of religious faith.

The Quran is not clear on this matter. Anyone who says it is is simply lying. The Prophet instructed his followers;

To acquire knowledge is binding upon all Muslims, whether male or female.

The ink of the scholar is more holy than the blood of the martyr.

He who travels in the search of knowledge, to him God shows the way of Paradise.

Acquire knowledge, because he who acquires it, in the way of the Lord, performs an act of piety; who speaks of it praises the Lord; who seeks it, adores God, who dispenses instruction in it, bestows alms; and who imparts it to its fitting objects, performs an act of devotion to God. Knowledge enables its possessor to distinguish what is forbidden from what is not; lights the way to Heaven; it is our friend in the desert, our companion in solitude, our companion, when bereft of riends; it guides us to happiness; it sustains us in misery; it is our ornament in the company of friends; it serves as an armor against our enemies. With knowledge the creatures of Allah rises to the heights of goodness and to noble position, associates with the sovereigns in this world and attains the perfection of happiness in the next.

In my opinion it looks like Darwin's prominence as a critic of Christians has now stagnated, so he has to diversify. I support him in that of course, evolutionary theory should be spread far and wide. I don't believe it contradicts pure Islamic belief, unless of course people are to literally close their minds. It literally makes no sense, the ''traditional'' story. Nor is it even made clear in the Quran beyond ''God crated Adam''.

So... discuss.

[VALIS]

That man is going to get his head cut off. Muhammadans don't take kindly to this.

[Dr. Croccer]

Bad choice. Dawkins relies on ridiculing Creationist Christian nutters. Muslim theology isn't as clear on the origin of the Earth nor as strict as the Christian one IIRC. Doesn't the Koran state that the world was made in 7 steps, not days? Or something along those lines?

[removeduser_426582376423734]

Quite flippant use of the word 'convert'. To evolutionary theory, not atheism.

[GuineaPig]

Quite flippant use of the word 'convert'. To evolutionary theory, not atheism.

This. And saying Tunisia is representative of the larger Muslim world is laughable as well.

[Last Roman]

Quite flippant use of the word 'convert'. To evolutionary theory, not atheism.

this. I thought that the man was actually going to try to convert Muslims, which seem to some of the most faithful (and in some cases, zealous) to their idea of God and religion, to atheism.


In which I would've said "good luck, hope you got your will and testament."

[Каие]

A conversion, in his eyes anyway, nonetheless.

And saying Tunisia is representative of the larger Muslim world is laughable as well.

It's no more representative than Saudi Arabia, Iran, Turkey, or Pakistan is. Yet that doesn't stop most people.

[Claudius Gothicus]

This idiot is going to get shot,when will he learn that he can't go around making atheism/"evolution" seminaries? Atheism/agnosticism is no like a religion you don't have to preach it it preaches itself.

[Desperado †]

Most thiests did not disagree with the theory until the creationists started up the whole debate in America after Darwin's theory had become generally accepted. I actually fear Dawkins with his arrogance could make the situation worse. We all know how fundamentalists hate Westerners, and we all know how they hate books about their religion. I know nothing on the Islamic view of evolution, but I feel he may just inflame a mostly quiet and ignored topic and do the opposite of what he's intending.

[Copperknickers II]

Noone is going to shoot him, though it is certainly not helping if he uses the term 'convert'. That is one of the absolute commands in the Quran, all those who do not serve God are heathens and will be destroyed. I'm pretty sure there is some stuff about creation etc, let me check.

[Brain_in_a_vat]

If Mr. Dawkins isn't careful, there won't just be a fatwa and death threats, it'll be a full blown jihad. The military of Iran will be kicking down his door wailing "lalalala" and cutting him to pieces with scimitars. In all honesty, I am completely suprised that the governments of Muslim countries would even allow the sale of his books, nevermind allow it to become the best-seller.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Now putting aside his unlimited arrogance...

*yawn*

But frankly, I don't even recognise his analysis of Muslims and evolution.

You're trying to argue that Creationism isn't prevalent in the Islamic world?

In addition my dad who studied in Algeria in the 70's and 80's in evolutionary biology then came to England to do phD in it.... it just doesn't match.

So if someone in Kansas got a degree in evolutionary biology, that means Creationism isn't prevalent in Kansas? Come on man - think.

Bad choice. Dawkins relies on ridiculing Creationist Christian nutters.

Yes, because well all know calmly arguing against Creationism = "ridiculing".

Muslim theology isn't as clear on the origin of the Earth nor as strict as the Christian one IIRC.

Despite this, due to a combination of fundamentalist interpretation and the lack of education in some places, Creationism is rife in the Islamic world. So how could a book in Arabic on evolution by the guy who is recognised as (i) one of the leading evolutionary biologists in the world and (ii) the author of two of the best works of popular science ever written be a bad thing?

This idiot ...

This Emeritus Professor from Oxford.

I actually fear Dawkins with his arrogance could make the situation worse.

Yes, because writing a book calmly explaining established scientific fact is so "arrogant".

We all know how fundamentalists hate Westerners, and we all know how they hate books about their religion.

Well, we don't want to annoy the fundamentalists. So let's sit here quietly under this rock, ignoring scientific fact, until they go away. Yes, that will work.

[Каие]

*yawn*

''Yawn'' what? The man is arrogant. A valid detail.

You're trying to argue that Creationism isn't prevalent in the Islamic world?

keyword: I.
context of post: MY experiences.

So if someone in Kansas got a degree in evolutionary biology, that means Creationism isn't prevalent in Kansas? Come on man - think.

Algeria is a country of the illiterate and uneducated, infrastructural problems, my dad was drafted as an officer to teach the army how to read and write. So no doubt the lack of education contributes to making it seem prevalent. But of those who have been to school and are educated, it is as common as the States.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

''Yawn'' what? The man is arrogant. A valid detail.

Yes, because calmly stating his beliefs and the facts of science is "arrogant". What nonsense.

keyword: I.
context of post: MY experiences.

Keyword: not.
Context of post: relevance of one person's experience to the prevalence of Creationism in the Islamic world as a whole.

Algeria is a country of the illiterate and uneducated, infrastructural problems, my dad was drafted as an officer to teach the army how to read and write. So no doubt the lack of education contributes to making it seem prevalent. But of those who have been to school and are educated, it is as common as the States.

Yet despite that schooling and education, many people in Kansas still believe in Creationism. So there is no need to provide them with the evidence that Creationism is total nonsense? Think.

[Каие]

Yes, because calmly stating his beliefs and the facts of science is "arrogant". What nonsense.

You seem to have a habit of inventing the words of your opponent here. Where did I say ''Stating his beliefs makes him arrogant''... ? Ah yes indeed, I did not specify why I thought he was arrogant in my post. Your statement was purely your own assumption and prejudice.

For the record I consider this statement arrogant;

“I’d like to think there’s got to be something wrong with people who finish the book and don’t think that.”

By definition; ''overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors''

Keyword: not.
Context of post: relevance of one person's experience to the prevalence of Creationism in the Islamic world as a whole.

Don't remember saying it was. Please do try and actually address the meaning of my post TG instead of creating an invented position for me, then proceeding to ridicule that aforementioned invented position.

I was speaking of my own perception, which I have got from my own experience, seeing as Mr Dawkins is trying to say '' The reason that 30% of teenagers support Intelligent design is because of Muslims in the UK'' (despite us only making up 2% of the population and less than 5% of the kids) I was entitled to give an alternate viewpoint, which I did.

Nowhere did I hint at it being the norm or universal, unlike Dawkins.

Yet despite that schooling and education, many people in Kansas still believe in Creationism. So there is no need to provide them with the evidence that Creationism is total nonsense? Think.

Is this a straw man I see before me? Where did I say ''there was no need to provide them with the evidence''? In fact, pray tell, where have I voiced opposition to this book translation... anywhere in any of my posts at all?

I'll help you out.

Now putting aside his unlimited arrogance... I support his little endeavour. It would be BRILLIANT if Dawkin's book ever got to the top spot in a Muslim country, it would prove a lot of things, and would in my opinion be beneficial.

In my opinion it looks like Darwin's prominence as a critic of Christians has now stagnated, so he has to diversify. I support him in that of course, evolutionary theory should be spread far and wide.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

For the record I consider this statement arrogant;

"I’d like to think there’s got to be something wrong with people who finish the book and don’t think that"

By definition; ''overbearing pride evidenced by a superior manner toward inferiors''

What the hell? The earth is clearly not 6000 years old! Evolution is clearly a fact! Stating that he feels his book on evolution would make these clear facts abundantly clear is not frigging "arrogance".

Don't remember saying it was. Please do try and actually address the meaning of my post TG instead of creating an invented position for me, then proceeding to ridicule that aforementioned invented position.

Your post took one example, yours, than said "The Quran is not clear on this matter. Anyone who says it is is simply lying." Did he say there were no believers in evolution in Islam? No. Did he say the Qu'ran is "clear on this matter"? No. He simply said Creationism exists in Islam, his books have never been translated in Arabic and he'd be happy to see the latest one translated. Oh, the arrogance of the man!

I was speaking of my own perception, which I have got from my own experience, seeing as Mr Dawkins is trying to say '' The reason that 30% of teenagers support Intelligent design is because of Muslims in the UK'' (despite us only making up 2% of the population and less than 5% of the kids) I was entitled to give an alternate viewpoint, which I did.

Strange, I can't find that quote anywhere ...

Nowhere did I hint at it being the norm or universal, unlike Dawkins.

Where did he say it was "the norm", let alone "universal"? What were you just trying to say about "strawmen"?

Is this a straw man I see before me? Where did I say ''there was no need to provide them with the evidence''? In fact, pray tell, where have I voiced opposition to this book translation... anywhere in any of my posts at all?

So what the hell was all the totally irrelevant wibbling about how you and your family weren't Creationists? Did Dawkins say all Muslims were Creationists? No he didn't. So, your point was ...

[Claudius Gothicus]

This Emeritus Professor from Oxford.

Still an idiot to me a highly educated one, going around trying to impose your views on people is working the same way as the religious jerks.
I don't mind he being an atheist, in fact I support it, but do not preach it like the new faith or something, because enlightenment is about self realizing not some dude ridiculing you on a stand telling you how stupid you are in fact that sounds like a Christian preacher to me.

[black-dragon]

Still an idiot to me a highly educated one, going around trying to impose your views on people is working the same way as the religious jerks.
I don't mind he being an atheist, in fact I support it, but do not preach it like the new faith or something, because enlightenment is about self realizing not some dude ridiculing you on a stand telling you how stupid you are in fact that sounds like a Christian preacher to me.

He's imposing his beliefs how?

[Claudius Gothicus]

He's imposing his beliefs how?

Not imposing in the real meaning but he's working the same way that the religious preachers, go around making conferences(which is OK), making statements(which is OK), ridiculing people(which isn't) instead of educating them.

[black-dragon]

ridiculing people(which isn't) instead of educating them.

Examples..?