Lot's Daughters

[chriscase]

OK, I know this has come up in many other contexts, and I'm not asking for more "This is why religion is stupid" comments.

But WTF is up with Lot's daughters? They are like the superfreaks of the Old Testament. First they get offered up in a huge gangbang by their dad. (The text I read was fuzzy on the details of what actually happened there, but I have a strong suspicion where the Hustler dramatization will go with it.) Next thing you know, they are getting Dad drunk and having sweet incest love with him. All for the continuation of the clan. Yeah, sure. It's like pornography for ancient jews. And medieval priests, I suppose.

I'm reading a freaking Children's Bible and they are in there. Thankfully my kid was too confused by the story of Sodom and Gomorrah in general to take much notice of them.

Does anyone have a rational explanation what the hell these characters are doing in the Bible, other than serving as the archetypal inspiration for Rick James?

[Del Valle]

Well, Lot's daughters had thought the end of the world had just happened and they needed to repopulate the Earth. For the offering up of Lot's daughters, I suppose it was show that since the men of the city had no interest in the women they were really gay.

[MaximiIian]

I suppose it was show that since the men of the city had no interest in the women they were really gay.

Yeah...except, that wasn't the point of the Sodom and Gomorrah tale.

In the ancient world, hospitality was Serious. ing. Business.
Lot offered his daughters to show that it was better to throw your own children to the wolves (or murders/rapists...the story isn't exactly clear what the men of Sodom want to do) than to turn guests away. Likewise, the men of the city didn't want anything to do with Lot's daughters because if they acquiesced to that, then the tale would kinda become a broken Aesop and fall on its own face. There'd be no point to it, unless they demanded nothing short of Lot's guests to do stuff to.

[Cluny the Scourge]

One point that people rarely think to consider in this context - and which is of crucial importance - is how hot Lot's daughters were.

I'm quite serious. Supposing the two daughters were freaking hideous - obese, pox-scarred, squint-eyed, etc. We don't know, do we? Now supposing this were true - then this throws an entirely different complexion on the whole scenario. Lot could offer his daughters to the crowd of wannabe rapists without any worry that they were actually going to be raped, because the very idea of accepting such an offer would fill them with vomit-inducing revulsion. Lot would just make the offer as a way of showing the angels he was willing to try to help them.

This has two ramifications:

1) Lot isn't such a bad sort after all; and
2) The crowd weren't strictly homosexual after all - just discriminating in their tastes.

[removeduser_426582376423734]

[pericles_plato]

Well they were offered to get gangbanged by their father so they leave the strangers alone. In which that doesn't happen. So the angels blinded them seeing that they were all immoral and against God so to speak. Angels told Lot take your whole family including son in-laws and don't look back when leaving. The son in-laws refused because they thought Lot was crazy "Sodom and Gomorah wont get destroyed", they said while laughing. So he took his wife and two daughters. So Lot and family walking out and a few miles ahead Lots wife looked back to see the city burning and turned into a pillar of salt. Lots kept going and going with the rest. Only two daughter. They stopped to sleep. The two daughters thought they were the last beigns on Earth so the got their father drunk different nights and slept with him. Eldest was first i believe. They both got pregnant and had children. All without letting the father know at first.

[chriscase]

Ok, but if the only point was to emphasize Lot's hospitality, there are other ways to do that. And the whole incest thing on top of it just seems like these particular women are singled out in an unneccesarily lurid way.

[MaximiIian]

Ok, but if the only point was to emphasize Lot's hospitality, there are other ways to do that. And the whole incest thing on top of it just seems like these particular women are singled out in an unnecessarily lurid way.

It makes for a more interesting and entertaining story. A lot(no pun intended) of myths and tales throw (w)incest in there for the lulz.

[Dr. Oza]

reason #98512 that christianity contradicts and makes a fool of itself

....

the fact that lot's daughters who by being connected to lot, a prophet, would actively seek incestuous activities with their father is ludicrous

why wouldn't god tell lot that humanity isnt destroyed, as he obliviously communicates with him

in islam we believe more or less the same story except for the incest part

[Old_Scratch]

The old testament is more about the mythologized history of the Jews than a collection of moral lessons. That's why there are so many things in it that leave you scratching your head. Is there a moral lesson in the story of Saul and how he defeated the Ammonites in 1 Samuel or countless other OT stories of battles and massacres? No, or morality is not the theme at least.

This is similar with Lot. There are moral lessons in the Sodom and Gomorrah story which is why it's more familiar in Christianity, but his daughters becoming pregnant by their father is not one of them. In fact it's a symbol of shameful acts. The title of that part, v30-v38, is The Shameful Origin of Moab and Ammon. Moab and Ammon were the names of the sons produced out of this union and are said to be the ancestor on the populations of the cities of the same name. This story is meant to cast aspersions on Israels cultural rivals while acknowledging a kinship with them.

On a side note, I find the concept of a children's bible funny. The bible is pretty heavy reading and something that I think a child would have a hard time understanding in the context of the time and the people who wrote it. It would be similar to something like The Children's Communist Manifesto. Not really easy for children to understand even when it's presented in a child friendly way.

[jankren]

reason #98512 that christianity contradicts and makes a fool of itself

....

the fact that lot's daughters who by being connected to lot, a prophet, would actively seek incestuous activities with their father is ludicrous

why wouldn't god tell lot that humanity isnt destroyed, as he obliviously communicates with him

in islam we believe more or less the same story except for the incest part

Except, no where in the Bible says Lot is a prophet.

[Titus Terrasidius]

reason #98512 that christianity contradicts and makes a fool of itself

....

the fact that lot's daughters who by being connected to lot, a prophet, would actively seek incestuous activities with their father is ludicrous

why wouldn't god tell lot that humanity isnt destroyed, as he obliviously communicates with him

in islam we believe more or less the same story except for the incest part

Yeah but remember that Incest while it has always been a taboo to a greater or lesser extent was far more acceptable back then (espcially the near / middle eastern lands like Egypt in particular) and even in Ancient Rome than it is now. Most probably because of radically different mores and the fact that human mortality rates were, relative to today, very very low, aaaand there were obviously no suitable suiters in the immediate area.

I personally think Incest is a reasonably natural thing for a person to feel if they do feel it (and in certain, more complicated, circumstances like with Genetic Sexual Attraction) and even act on if the feelings are mutual and that the only reason its a taboo is because of the sexual conotations with immediate or close relatives. Humans are naturaly shy about these things in public. All you need to do is "think outside the box" as it were and not let your thoughts be clouded by opinion but rather reason and sense.

[Central Asian Qaghan]

In Islam the whole Incest with Lot didn't actually happen, since he was a prophet and all. So from my point, he didn't do it and none of this ever happened. I could understand a countinual of the family line, but Incest within the Christan holy book were it is mentioned that it is wrong? Thats just weird and ruins the book.

[Cousin Skeeter]

In Islam the whole Incest with Lot didn't actually happen, since he was a prophet and all. So from my point, he didn't do it and none of this ever happened. I could understand a countinual of the family line, but Incest within the Christan holy book were it is mentioned that it is wrong? Thats just weird and ruins the book.

.

[Dust be in Thy Mouth, Infidel!]

Oh no, I'm sure it was for the greater good.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Does anyone have a rational explanation what the hell these characters are doing in the Bible

Because it happened? Why else would so many unflattering characters be in the Bible? They aren't exactly rolemodels..

[Exarch]

i find it funny how YHWH tacitly allows this incest to happen when he's dictated how offensive it is in Deuteronomy

[CtrlAltDe1337]

i find it funny how YHWH tacitly allows this incest to happen when he's dictated how offensive it is in Deuteronomy

The children of Lot's daughters became some of the Jew's worst enemies, so I think you are mistaking things things. This was a bad thing, and God didn't approve of it just because its written in the book. The Bible reports on many bad things, but doesn't approve of them.

[jankren]

The children of Lot's daughters became some of the Jew's worst enemies, so I think you are mistaking things things. This was a bad thing, and God didn't approve of it just because its written in the book. The Bible reports on many bad things, but doesn't approve of them.

Yeah, like Moses ordered his filthy followers to murder an entire town except the virgins whom they could keep for themselves.

Of course your god didnt approve that.

[roy34543]

Yeah, like Moses ordered his filthy followers to murder an entire town except the virgins whom they could keep for themselves.

Of course your god didnt approve that.

Didnt he get punished by not being allowed to eneter Israel for that?
Or was that because he hit a rock with his staff? im not sure