Hudson River tragedy transcript: controller joked about barbecuing cat

**DAVIDE** · August 21, 2009, 07:47 AM

Excerpts from draft government transcripts of conversations between the control tower of the Teterboro, N.J., airport and the pilot of a Piper plane that collided with a helicopter over the Hudson River on Aug. 8, killing nine people. The pilot of the helicopter involved in the collision was not involved in the conversations, though other helicopter pilots were:
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11:48:46 a.m., the Teterboro controller contacts a helicopter in the area to report that a plane is taking off and ''will be turning to the southeast, join the river, climbing to 1,100 (feet).''
The controller asks the Piper, tail number N71MC, to report its altitude.
11:50:05 a.m., Piper pilot: ''Climbing out of four hundred.''
Teterboro controller: ''Traffic 11 o'clock and two miles, northwest bound one thousand (feet), a helicopter.''
Piper pilot: ''Seven one mike charlie, lookin'.''
At that point, the helicopter pilot reports the Piper is in sight, and the Teterboro controller tells the Piper, ''helicopter has you in sight.''
Piper pilot: ''Thank you, sir.''
11:50:41 a.m., the Teterboro controller gets on the phone with a woman from the airport's operations center. ''Do we have plenty of gas for the grill?'' he asks.
Operations: ''Huh?''
Controller: ''I said, we got plenty of gas in the grill?''
Operations: ''(unintelligible) it kinda sucks that we can't, we won't be able to do it today.''
Controller: ''(unintelligible) fire up the cat,'' a reference to a dead cat found earlier at the airport.
Operations: ''Ooh, disgusting. Augh, that thing was disgusting.''
Controller: ''Chinese people do it, so why can't we?''
Operations: ''Augh, stop it.''
Controller: (laughter).
11:51:17 a.m. Controller, to the Piper pilot: ''One mike charlie, start a left turn to join the Hudson River.''
Piper pilot: ''One mike charlie.''
Controller: ''This freakin' guy''
Operations: ''I know'' (laughter).
Controller: (unintelligible)
Operations: ''Oh my god, it was pretty bad. Ugh.''
The conversation continues for about 2 1/2 minutes, interspersed with radio communications with various aircraft.
11:52:19 a.m., the controller radios the Piper and instructs the pilot to contact the Newark airport tower on a certain frequency, and the pilot repeats the instruction. At about the same time, the Newark tower calls the Teterboro tower about the Piper plane.
Newark controller: ''Hey, Teterboro, Newark. Would you switch that guy, maybe put him on a two-twenty heading to get away from that other traffic please?''
Teterboro controller: ''Say again, Newark.''
Newark controller: ''Can you switch that PA-32 (the Piper)?''
Teterboro controller: ''I ... did keep an eye on him, though.''
Newark controller: ''I'm not talking to him, so...''
Teterboro controller, trying to radio the Piper: ''One mike charlie, Newark is (on frequency) twenty-seven eighty-five. He's lost in the hertz (airwaves), try him again.''
Newark controller: ''One mike charlie, Newark.''
During this time, the Teterboro controller is also on the phone with the woman in the operations office.
11:53:07 a.m., Teterboro controller says to the operations office: ''Damn.''
Operations: ''What's the matter...''
Controller: ''Yeah, let me straighten stuff out.'' He hangs up at 11:53:10, four seconds before the collision occurs.
Teterboro controller, on the radio to Newark: ''Newark, Teterboro. Did you get him yet?''
Newark controller: ''Nope.''
11:55:17, Newark controller: ''I think he went down in the Hudson.''
11:55:42, another helicopter pilot in the area: ''Be advised there was an airplane crashed into a helicopter just south of the Lincoln (tunnel) a minute ago.''
Teterboro operations: ''Did he say what I thought he said?''
Controller: ''Yeah.''
Operations: ''Where at?''
Controller: ''Over the river.''
Operations: ''Oh, my lord. Okay, thanks.''

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009...q=Piper&st=cse

also here: http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009...q=Piper&st=cse

**lordoftheT** · August 21, 2009, 07:48 AM

Slow news week?

Not sure why the cat thing is in the title.

**DAVIDE** · August 21, 2009, 07:51 AM

i just read it today. Transcript has been released yesterday here in Italy

**lordoftheT** · August 21, 2009, 07:55 AM

Disregard my last post for some reason I thought we had a thread about the crash and that this was just about the cat joke.

**Chukada1** · August 21, 2009, 08:42 AM

Controllers are not allowed to display any ounce of humanity on the job.

**DAVIDE** · August 21, 2009, 09:04 AM

here's the audio version

http://admatch-syndication.mochila.c...2873&buid=4161

i m having modem connection problems, if link doenst work tell me

**Phier** · August 21, 2009, 09:13 AM

and?

**Justinian** · August 21, 2009, 09:15 AM

Looking at the transcript ... it doesn't seem like anyone

ed up too badly. Did he just completely forget about the helicopter?

**Erik** · August 21, 2009, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Justinian

Did he just completely forget about the helicopter?

It seems to me he felt the situation was safe when the helicopter pilot reported seeing the Piper, and didn't pay any attention to the situation until the Newark operator brought it up.

It also seems the situation was still savable at that point, if they hadn't lost contact with the Piper pilot.

**DAVIDE** · August 21, 2009, 10:38 AM

yes. Also, fatality about other two controllers which took a break without permission and the supervisor was absent without justification. At the moment of accident, there were only the Teterboro controller (which was talking to the girl) and the Newark one. Teterboro controller has been suspended, together with the two which took a break (i m not sure about those two)

**danzig** · August 21, 2009, 02:39 PM

Well personally I think anyone taking personal calls on the job, especially one like this is stupid but yeah it doesnt appear like he really did anything wrong beyond what I think most of us do on occasion (personal calls). Question seems to be why the Piper lost radio contact.

**Justinian** · August 21, 2009, 03:28 PM

It's looking more and more like the helicopter pilot messed up in some way. If he saw the plane five minutes before the collision, how could they possibly have collided without him screwing up? Besides some goofing around on the job it looks like the ATC employees are being made scapegoats of.

The helicopter reports seeing the plane;
The plane reports seeing the helicopter;
Everything is normal;
ATC tells the plane to switch over to the Newark tower, gives it information to do so, and gets confirmation. At this point the plane is no longer the Teterbero ATC's concern.
The real question is what the two pilots were doing and why the Piper pilot lost communication with both ATC towers. Maybe there was some sort of mechanical failure which led to losing communication and the subsequent crash. But you still have to wonder how two pilots who see eachother can collide five minutes later.

**Erik** · August 21, 2009, 05:12 PM

Originally Posted by Justinian

It's looking more and more like the helicopter pilot messed up in some way. If he saw the plane five minutes before the collision, how could they possibly have collided without him screwing up?

From what I understand the helicopter was flying in (more or less) the same direction, meaning the pilot had to look behind to see the (faster flying) Piper.
That way it's easy to loose sight.

The plane reports seeing the helicopter;

No he didn't.

He acknowledged the message saying the helicopter has him in sight, but he didn't report having the helicopter in sight as well.

Since he never reported seeing the helicopter, he probably never did.
Perhaps the controller assumed the Piper pilot saw the helicopter but forgot to report it. - that would be a mistake.

The real question is what the two pilots were doing and why the Piper pilot lost communication with both ATC towers. Maybe there was some sort of mechanical failure which led to losing communication and the subsequent crash.

I think mechanical failure of a radio that worked 1 minute before the crash in very unlikely.

Perhaps the Piper pilot entered the wrong frequency (even though he replied the correct frequency, so he did hear it correctly) and was busy correcting the mistake (probably looking at his knee pad, searching for the Newark frequency), causing him to miss the helicopter in front of him?

Originally Posted by Hotspur

It seems that Newark saw there was a potential problem but Teterboro was busy yammering on the phone.

I think he was distracted, yes.
But making a phone call should not affect your ability to see blips on a radar screen.

And this happened roughly 1 minute before the crash, that should normally be enough time to put the plane on a new heading, had they not just lost radio contact.

**Hotspur** · August 21, 2009, 04:35 PM

Knowing next to nothing about air traffic control, I find this concerning:

Newark controller: ''Hey, Teterboro, Newark. Would you switch that guy, maybe put him on a two-twenty heading to get away from that other traffic please?''

Teterboro controller: ''Say again, Newark.''

Newark controller: ''Can you switch that PA-32 (the Piper)?''

Teterboro controller: ''I ... did keep an eye on him, though.''

It seems that Newark saw there was a potential problem but Teterboro was busy yammering on the phone.

**touchmaster** · August 22, 2009, 12:33 AM

Controllers are basically the equivalent to 911 dispatchers - they have to nail it every time and not screw up, if they do F up lives can be at stake. It's very easy to be distracted, since you are sitting in front of a PC screen for 8+ hours (not sure how long air traffic controllers work) trying to concentrate on directing planes to X to Y and looking out for other planes that may cause problems.