Berserker ctd.

[Horsa]

Ok, so here's my problem. I've added the berserk feature to a couple of units in the "export_descr_unit" text file for the mod I'm working on...
The mod will run fine, I can start a custom battle up with these units, I can enable the berserk mode in the game, but as soon as they begin to hit each other when they charge I get a ctd.

I really can't understand this problem, its odd. I've never had a crash to desktop at that point before. I would just look for the problem in the data/logs folder, but the mod never makes a file when it has a ctd (not just for this problem, its always!), there's probably a simple reason to it right, even if someone could help me fix that, I may be able to fix the berserker problem on my own...



Help please!

[uanime5]

Berserk doesn't work in M2TW. I don't know why but I think it's to do with either the beserk unit dying or killing someone. The best way to test this is to make the berserker super strong and armoured and have them attack a very weak unit. If the mod doesn't crash then it's the beserkers' death that causes crashes, if the mod does crash then it's because a berserker killed someone.

[Taiji]

In my experience it crashes, as if something is missing, the moment the unit should go berserk.

edit:

I think I worked that out from setting berserk and warcry, since warcry sets off berserk in RTW.

I think it crashes the moment I hit warcry, where normally warcry works fine.

[Gigantus]

Well, there should be the little icon on the unit card. Then the unit should flash. And i guess that's why it crashes: the flash animation or whatever dodaa is used doesn't seem to be present.

[Taiji]

Yep, that's what I figured too. I don't know whether that can be imported from RTW, but it would be very nice if it could

[Eothese]

No, all that works fine, the flashing the warcry the whole lot. The problem is most likely in some missing hardcode, this has been tried to breaking point in the past and never solved.

[SigniferOne]

That's the thing though, I didn't think of adding a proper berserking 2d icon, which is maybe what the game is looking for.

Can someone open up RTW's /data/ui/battle.sd and see if there's a reference to berserking there?

[Eothese]

Yeah I did, there is no reference. Only to warcry. BTW I checked in RTW 1.5 as I dont have BI installed anymore.

And from my own testing the CTD happens when either unit involved takes a casualty, regardless of which descr_skeleton entry either unit is using.
The berserk unit enters the heroic moral status, the banner flashes red and the unit is lost from your control. Given enough of a run around without a fatality, the unit eventually drops out of the berserk state, returns to the players control and can re-enter berserk mode when the ability has refreshed.

I tested this using fast missile cavalry under my control against AI berserking enabled infantry.
Using berserker enabled infantry v's berserker enabled infantry.
Using the fully imported and corrected descr_skeleton from RTW for both sides.

And many more combinations over many hours. If anyone can solve this I hope they make it public.

[SigniferOne]

Given enough of a run around without a fatality, the unit eventually drops out of the berserk state, returns to the players control and can re-enter berserk mode when the ability has refreshed.

That's really interesting -- so there aren't any problems with the berserker unit attacking? If you give them something like 15hp then no crashing occurs?

And from my own testing the CTD happens when either unit involved takes a casualty

That, again, is very interesting. Maybe there's some 'dying' animation keyword which our Med2 berserker skeletons are not properly employing?

[GatorMarine1833]

I don't mean to be a thread necromancer here, but I think I may have a bit more information.

From my most recent testing the game does not crash when the Berserkers die and it does not crash when they kill. I think the game is looking for a specific Berserk ATTACK animation that it cannot find.

I think it is:
data/animations/berserker_2m_swing.cas;scale=1.100000

This is probably the animation where the Berserker spins and knocks the enemies back. In RTW if you gave the Berserk ability to a one-handed weapon skeleton the unit has a glitch when using this animation that makes the model just turn into a statue and do a 360 while a couple surrounding units are launched.

So again, I think this animation needs to be brought to M2TW, for starters

other possibilities:

anim knockdown_launch data/animations/2HS_89_knockdown_launch.CAS -fr, -evt:data/animations/2HS_89_knockdown_launch.evt

anim knockdown_lying data/animations/LIS_114_knockdown_idle.CAS -fr, -evt:data/animations/LIS_114_knockdown_idle.evt

anim knockdown_recover data/animations/2HS_89_knockdown_idle_to_Stand_ready.CAS -fr, -evt:data/animations/2HS_89_knockdown_idle_to_Stand_ready.evt

anim knockdown_stumble data/animations/2HS_89_knockdown.CAS -fr, -evt:data/animations/2HS_89_knockdown.evt

anim berserker_swing_attack_left data/animations/berserker_2m_swing.cas

[Eothese]

EPIC BUMP



So, I never like to let a problem lie and eventually got back to this. I've done a lot of work around animal handler units and eventually got infantry as the 'animal' to work without a crash. So I decided to have another look at the berserkers.

Here's the main point, berserkers as cavalry work no problem.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

As you can see casualties on both sides, the full works. Same goes for elephant type mounts.

So the problem for infantry must be anim related? Not 100% so, I used the cavalry unit again but gave them infantry anims. After playing about with the rider offset to give them range to attack the result was the same, casualties on both sides, no CTD.

Give a cavalry unit infantry anims, make an invisible horse, play about with the rider offset and you have a unit that look's like infantry and can go berserk without a CTD. (Albeit the game classes them as cavalry, so you lose the ability to attack wall's).

[Briarius]

That's a really great find Eothese,

It is kind of strange though that how could this happen.. I mean why it is working with cavalry and isn't with infantry. Something really strange mus have happened with the original RomeTW code while they were reprogramming stuff to the new engine.

Nice to having berserker attribute back anyway, I'm using it on my cavalry.

+

[Taiji]

I noticed this ages ago, while scripting units to go berserk for a fun indicator of success within a battle-script, but I didn't find a way to make it sensible so I abandoned it. But well done anyway, Eothese, I don't mean to steal your satisfaction - You earned your discovery

The main problem I couldn't solve was making it work with infantry. Personally I couldn't find a use for it with cav, but berserking inf would make a really nice feature.

[Squid]

Since it's likely an animation issue, my guess is that berserker cavalry don't use any extra animations, wouldn't the easiest solution be to check the animation set for an RTW model and see what animation an M2TW model doesn't have and add those, or equivalent ones, in and see what happens?

[Taiji]

It doesn't work, Squid. But I don't remember what happens or I'd explain further.

[Squid]

The previous attempt only added the one berserker_swing_left animation but I'm thinking there might be a bunch of others that have been overlooked. Not only that but from the discussion of adding the berserker_swing_left animation there was something not that animation itself that other M2TW animation contain that also might be causing the problem.

[Taiji]

No idea what 'the previous attempt' means to you - I'm talking about my own experience; I've tried numerous things numerous times (having studied both M2TW and RTW's animations coding extensively), but to no avail

Certainly just adding anim types from RTW doesn't help. Seems to be something about the classification of units rather than anything to do with animations. I'd imagine it's hardcoded but I'd love to be wrong.

[Squid]

I was referring to the thread linked above.

[Taiji]

Ah, now I see me posting in it too - This thread! So in a way you were talking about my experience but without me knowing it

Well basically somewhere in the last 2 years I've checked it out and failed to get anywhere with it after much trying.

('EPIC BUMP'; I thought I got it before, but now I get it.)

[Eothese]

I've tried a lot of things as well, including adding the whole fs_2handed_berserker entry from RTW. This works, with visual glitches, but still has the same old CTD when the units engage.

As I stated earlier, I'm not sure it is an anim related problem because if I give the cavalry unit infantry anims it doesn't crash. Therefore it's not the anim set (descr_skeleton entry) that causes a problem.

So what is the difference between infantry and cavalry for the game engine? Height, radius, mass and the horse has it's own anim set... Height, radius and mass were easy to test, they aren't the problem either.
That leaves the horse's anim set, which has a different footer than the infantry anims when converted to text.

The headers and footers were something which Bwian hinted at being interesting or exciting in one of his tuts. The only way to test this though is to convert most of the anims in a set to text and change the header/footer, then convert back and add a new descr_skeleton entry using only the altered anims.