Kingdoms EDU questions

[Aradan]

I need a bit of help to figure out a couple of stuff in the Kingdom's EDU (some things might be common with M2).



1. The stat_cost line in Kingdoms has 8 entries: turns, cost, upk, wpn_upg, arm_upg, CB cost and two more. What are those last two entries?




2. This is, I believe, a complete list of unit attributes added in Kingdoms (compared to RTW), along with a short description of what each does. Some have question-marks there, which means I don't know what the effect of the attribute is, so any info is appreciated. Also, some descriptions include questions to which I'd also appreciate any answers.

free_upkeep: unit is capable of using the free upkeep slots of settlements
knight: ?? - knight units (what if it's missing?)
can_withdraw: unit is capable of withdrawing from the battle (units without it cannot?)
stakes: unit is capable of deploying stakes on the ground before the battle
can_formed_charge: unit gets extra bonus for charge when doing it in a organized fashion (fixed or multiplier?)
cannot_skirmish: unit doesn't have the skirmish option
gunpowder_unit: ?? - unit fires guns (what if it's missing?)
gunmen/guncavalry: ?? - gun-units, infantry and cavalry respectively (what if it's missing?)
start_not_phalanxing: phalanx unit which never starts in phalanx mode
start_not_skirmishing: skirmish unit which never starts in skirmishing mode
crossbow: crossbow firing units (what if it's missing?)
fire_by_rank: gun unit can fire by ranks
peasant: ?? - peasant units (what if it's missing?)
pike: ?? - units with long pike (what if it's missing?)
incendiary: causes fires
artillery: ?? - used by siege engine units (what if it's missing?)
cannon, mortar, rocket: ?? - for the respective type of units (what if it's missing?)
explode: ??
wagon, standard: ?? - for the respective type of units

Obviously, crossbowmen will be assigned the "crossbow" attribute, but what happens when they are? Is it used for recruitment? Unit placement in formations? Sth else? The same question applies for all the attributes like that one,: knight, peasant, gunmen, pike, etc etc.


Thanks.

[SigniferOne]

peasant: ?? - peasant units (what if it's missing?)

I believe what this means is that its unit has only 50% effect on settlement's unrest. This attribute was added so that the player couldn't squash his settlements with cheap rabble units. And since who among us hasn't thought to build hoards of peasants to control unrest (not realizing that it wasn't working), I'd suggest that this feature is a good one. I would like someone to confirm it with an independent test, using two identical units, to see if it's true or not...

[Aradan]

I thought that it was the "is_peasant" attribute that did what you describe, at least in RTW. The "peasant" one is a different one.

[SigniferOne]

Oh? Hrmmm..

[Taiji]

I'll try to help but it's getting kinda late here and I might miss a thing or three...

free_upkeep: unit is capable of using the free upkeep slots of settlements - Correct as long as the settlement contains the correct building to construct the unit.
knight: Allows experience bonus from buildings that provide a bonus for knights.
can_withdraw: Don't know, always use it.
stakes: unit is capable of deploying stakes on the ground before the battle - correct (and also during battle if scripted).
can_formed_charge: Unit attempts to improve cohesion before charge, can cause stalling but is usually more effective (especially for the AI it seems).
cannot_skirmish: unit doesn't have the skirmish option - Correct.
gunpowder_unit: I can't bloody remember... I think this applies a bonus whereby the missile weapon the unit uses will ignore shields. There's more that I seem to have forgotten right now, sorry.
gunmen/guncavalry: Again, not sure here. I think this is the one that tells them to fire from the front rank only, you give crossbowmen this and they will too. Also I think it acts as a tag for the AI... or that could be 'gunpowder_unit'... ...oh and also either these ones or gunpowder_unit allows upgrades for gunpowder units
start_not_phalanxing: phalanx unit which never starts in phalanx mode - yeah but doesn't make much difference at all in my experience. The AI typically will not switch in and out of phalanx and if it isn't starting with it on then it just turns it on pretty much straight away anyway. I use it on all phalanx units, however, for the small benefit it might give in the speed of the AI's initial deployment.
start_not_skirmishing: skirmish unit which never starts in skirmishing mode - Correct.
crossbow: I'm lost again... (it's a good job I've done all this stuff...)
fire_by_rank: gun unit can fire by ranks - yeah but it sucks badly, don't use it. Point Blank has awesome animations that work without it to achieve the effect it fails to achieve.
peasant: ?? - peasant units - they are worth half as much as normal units at garrison.
pike: ?? - units with long pike (what if it's missing?) - an AI tag I think, never messed with it beyond giving it to pike units.
incendiary: causes fires - Not had much cause to play with this so I'm not of much use here.
artillery: ?? - used by siege engine units (what if it's missing?) AI tag again.
cannon, mortar, rocket: ?? - for the respective type of units (what if it's missing?) AI tag again.
explode: ?? I think it gives the engine a chance of exploding during normal operation.
wagon, standard: ?? - for the respective type of units - the warwagon that is only possible to get working in scenario battles is an engine, lost somewhere in the M2TW mess... oh no, I mean masterpeice! And standard is a morale boosting engine, like the Great Cross. I don't think it does anything other than boost morale in a small radius around it.

As for what happens when you don't let units have the AI tags the devs thought they needed... dunno mate, maybe nothing... seriously no idea, just like with 'can_withdraw'; I use it cos it sounds good

[Augustus Lucifer]

can_withdraw: Don't know, always use it.

This one is worth looking into. I presume it means that when a unit "routs" it is effectively destroyed post-battle, as opposed to not being able to rout which would be an advantageous attribute which should be labeled differently.

gunpowder_unit: I can't bloody remember... I think this applies a bonus whereby the missile weapon the unit uses will ignore shields. There's more that I seem to have forgotten right now, sorry.

There's an EDB bonus for gunpowder units, weapon_missile_gunpowder, I'm fairly certain this attribute causes the unit to be effected by that bonus. That or gun_bonus, another EDB thing.

gunmen/guncavalry: Again, not sure here. I think this is the one that tells them to fire from the front rank only, you give crossbowmen this and they will too. Also I think it acts as a tag for the AI... or that could be 'gunpowder_unit'... ...oh and also either these ones or gunpowder_unit allows upgrades for gunpowder units
crossbow: I'm lost again... (it's a good job I've done all this stuff...)
peasant: ?? - peasant units - they are worth half as much as normal units at garrison.
incendiary: causes fires - Not had much cause to play with this so I'm not of much use here.
explode: ?? I think it gives the engine a chance of exploding during normal operation.
wagon, standard: ?? - for the respective type of units - the warwagon that is only possible to get working in scenario battles is an engine, lost somewhere in the M2TW mess... oh no, I mean masterpeice! And standard is a morale boosting engine, like the Great Cross. I don't think it does anything other than boost morale in a small radius around it.

All of these are AI Labels to my knowledge. How exactly the AI uses them is something for someone more versed on it to explain, it's possible they're all defined in the BAI with specific parameters. Giving a unit explode to signify it has exploding ammunition for instance, would ideally tell the AI to fire it at units due to its unusual effectiveness compared to non-explosive siege weaponry.

[Taiji]

This one is worth looking into. I presume it means that when a unit "routs" it is effectively destroyed post-battle, as opposed to not being able to rout which would be an advantageous attribute which should be labeled differently.

I see what you mean. That would be a nice feature, the arty routs leaving it's equipment, the peasants and mercs rout and abandon their leader...

It does deserve some investigation.

[Taiji]

Aradan, it's a pleasure

Now, I'll continue

There's an EDB bonus for gunpowder units, weapon_missile_gunpowder, I'm fairly certain this attribute causes the unit to be effected by that bonus. That or gun_bonus, another EDB thing.

Now I'm awake and I'm not certain that you're right here. I think that this upgrade type in the EDB will be defined by the primary weapon's 'tech_type' i.e. 'missile_gunpowder'.

But I'm still not sure which bit tells the game to ignore shields with 'X' unit's missiles. And I still think it might be 'gunpowder_unit'... but I don't know and am too busy to test it

All of these are AI Labels to my knowledge. How exactly the AI uses them is something for someone more versed on it to explain, it's possible they're all defined in the BAI with specific parameters. Giving a unit explode to signify it has exploding ammunition for instance, would ideally tell the AI to fire it at units due to its unusual effectiveness compared to non-explosive siege weaponry.

You're bang on, but although these labels may be a part of the BAI they are typically not to be found in any of the files relating to BAI. So I don't know what they do, personally I use them because it sounds sensible.

In the case of 'gunmen' I'm confident it also causes only the front rank to fire. And as I stated, 'peasant' units give half garrison bonus.

So in some cases these AI tags do things beside help the AI know what kind of unit it is dealing with

edit:

Sorry Aradan, in my enthusiasm I missed that question. The 7th column on the stat_cost line tells the game how many units can be bought in a custom battle before there is a price raise for that unt. And then the 8th defines the size of the price increase.

[Aradan]

Thx for the input gents. M2 still holds secrets it seems. I assume nobody knows what the 7th and 8th entries of stat_cost do?

[SigniferOne]

knight: Allows experience bonus from buildings that provide a bonus for knights.

This is very useful, as it allows adding experience to any type of unit (with proper text editing).

There's an EDB bonus for gunpowder units, weapon_missile_gunpowder, I'm fairly certain this attribute causes the unit to be effected by that bonus. That or gun_bonus, another EDB thing.

Sweet, another way to add bonuses to units with a proper text re-editing.

Thx for the input gents. M2 still holds secrets it seems.

Oh yes. It is possible to use units' secondary health value to dramatically balance autocalc battles.

Sorry Aradan, in my enthusiasm I missed that question. The 7th column on the stat_cost line tells the game how many units can be bought in a custom battle before there is a price raise for that unt. And then the 8th defines the size of the price increase.

Just for that alone you are getting a +rep.

[Aradan]

The 7th column on the stat_cost line tells the game how many units can be bought in a custom battle before there is a price raise for that unt. And then the 8th defines the size of the price increase.

Excellent, thanks! CA should have made that last value a percentage, rather than a fixed value, but oh well.

knight: Allows experience bonus from buildings that provide a bonus for knights.

How exactly would these EDB lines be coded? Can you give an example with "knight" please?

Oh yes. It is possible to use units' secondary health value to dramatically balance autocalc battles.

That applies to RTW as well.

[Taiji]

Excellent, thanks! CA should have made that last value a percentage, rather than a fixed value, but oh well.

It's a pleasure
But I don't know for certain that it doesn't work as a percentage. I've not really had cause to mess with it since my focus has been completely on battles within campaigns. Sorry but I'm not sure on that.

How exactly would these EDB lines be coded? Can you give an example with "knight" please?

Yes sure:

building tourney
{
    levels jousting_lists tourney_fields 
    {
        jousting_lists castle requires factions { hre, france, england, portugal, spain, flanders, }  and event_counter governor_present 1  
        {
            capability
            {
                heavy_cavalry_bonus bonus 1
            }
            material wooden
            construction  4 
            cost  3200 
            settlement_min city
            upgrades
            {
                tourney_fields
            }
        }
        tourney_fields castle requires factions { hre, france, england, portugal, spain, flanders, }  and event_counter governor_present 1  
        {
            capability
            {
                happiness_bonus bonus 1
                free_upkeep bonus 1
                heavy_cavalry_bonus bonus 2
            }
            material wooden
            construction  8 
            cost  6400
            settlement_min large_city
            upgrades
            {
            }
        }
    }
    plugins 
    {
    }

Those 'heavy_cavalry_bonus' lines enable the experience upgrade for units with the 'knight' attribute.

[SigniferOne]

Those 'heavy_cavalry_bonus' lines enable the experience upgrade for units with the 'knight' attribute.

And of course its text string can be renamed to absolutely anything, with the result that you can apply this bonus to any unit you want.


Question:

Does anyone know how to force the unit to have all soldiers in it shoot all at once? Because although the soldiers within a unit do all go through the motions of shooting, not all do actually release their projectiles. You will see this if you set your unit to e.g. ammo of 2. In fact the unit will go through more than 2 rounds of aiming and firing! Any ideas?