Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 41

Thread: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1
    nopasties's Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1,741

    Default CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/us/20intel.html?hp
    C.I.A. Sought Blackwater’s Help in Plan to Kill Jihadists
    Khalid Mohammed/Associated Press
    Blackwater security contractors flew over Baghdad in 2007. For years, Blackwater played a significant role in the Iraq operation.

    By MARK MAZZETTI
    Published: August 19, 2009
    WASHINGTON — The Central Intelligence Agency in 2004 hired outside contractors from the private security contractor Blackwater USA as part of a secret program to locate and assassinate top operatives of Al Qaeda, according to current and former government officials.
    Skip to next paragraph Related

    Times Topics: Blackwater Worldwide


    Enlarge This Image
    Stephen Crowley/The New York Times
    Leon E. Panetta, the director of the Central Intelligence Agency, canceled a program to locate and kill the leaders of Al Qaeda.



    Executives from Blackwater, which has generated controversy because of its aggressive tactics in Iraq, helped the spy agency with planning, training and surveillance. The C.I.A. spent several million dollars on the program, which did not successfully capture or kill any terrorist suspects.
    The fact that the C.I.A. used an outside company for the program was a major reason that Leon E. Panetta, the C.I.A.’s director, became alarmed and called an emergency meeting in June to tell Congress that the agency had withheld details of the program for seven years, the officials said.
    It is unclear whether the C.I.A. had planned to use the contractors to actually capture or kill Qaeda operatives, or just to help with training and surveillance in the program. American spy agencies have in recent years outsourced some highly controversial work, including the interrogation of prisoners. But government officials said that bringing outsiders into a program with lethal authority raised deep concerns about accountability in covert operations.
    Officials said the C.I.A. did not have a formal contract with Blackwater for this program but instead had individual agreements with top company officials, including the founder, Erik D. Prince, a politically connected former member of the Navy Seals and the heir to a family fortune. Blackwater’s work on the program actually ended years before Mr. Panetta took over the agency, after senior C.I.A. officials themselves questioned the wisdom of using outsiders in a targeted killing program.
    Blackwater, which has changed its name, most recently to Xe Services, and is based in North Carolina, in recent years has received millions of dollars in government contracts, growing so large that the Bush administration said it was a necessary part of its war operation in Iraq.
    It has also drawn controversy. Blackwater employees hired to guard American diplomats in Iraq were accused of using excessive force on several occasions, including shootings in Baghdad in 2007 in which 17 civilians were killed. Iraqi officials have since refused to give the company an operating license.
    Several current and former government officials interviewed for this article spoke only on the condition of anonymity because they were discussing details of a still classified program.
    Paul Gimigliano, a C.I.A. spokesman, declined to provide details about the canceled program, but he said that Mr. Panetta’s decision on the assassination program was “clear and straightforward.”
    “Director Panetta thought this effort should be briefed to Congress, and he did so,” Mr. Gimigliano said. “He also knew it hadn’t been successful, so he ended it.”
    A Xe spokeswoman did not return calls seeking comment.
    Senator Dianne Feinstein, the California Democrat who leads the Senate Intelligence Committee, also declined to give details of the program. But she praised Mr. Panetta for notifying Congress. “It is too easy to contract out work that you don’t want to accept responsibility for,” she said.
    The C.I.A. this summer conducted an internal review of the assassination program that recently was presented to the White House and the Congressional intelligence committees. The officials said that the review stated that Mr. Panetta’s predecessors did not believe that they needed to tell Congress because the program was not far enough developed.
    The House Intelligence Committee is investigating why lawmakers were never told about the program. According to current and former government officials, former Vice President Dick Cheney told C.I.A. officers in 2002 that the spy agency did not need to inform Congress because the agency already had legal authority to kill Qaeda leaders.
    One official familiar with the matter said that Mr. Panetta did not tell lawmakers that he believed that the C.I.A. had broken the law by withholding details about the program from Congress. Rather, the official said, Mr. Panetta said he believed that the program had moved beyond a planning stage and deserved Congressional scrutiny.
    “It’s wrong to think this counterterrorism program was confined to briefing slides or doodles on a cafeteria napkin,” the official said. “It went well beyond that.”
    Current and former government officials said that the C.I.A.’s efforts to use paramilitary hit teams to kill Qaeda operatives ran into logistical, legal and diplomatic hurdles almost from the outset. These efforts had been run by the C.I.A.’s counterterrorism center, which runs operations against Al Qaeda and other terrorist networks.
    In 2002, Blackwater won a classified contract to provide security for the C.I.A. station in Kabul, Afghanistan, and the company maintains other classified contracts with the C.I.A., current and former officials said.
    Over the years, Blackwater has hired several former top C.I.A. officials, including Cofer Black, who ran the C.I.A. counterterrorism center immediately after the Sept. 11 attacks.
    C.I.A. operatives also regularly use the company’s training complex in North Carolina. The complex includes a shooting range used for sniper training.
    An executive order signed by President Gerald R. Ford in 1976 barred the C.I.A. from carrying out assassinations, a direct response to revelations that the C.I.A. had initiated assassination plots against Fidel Castro of Cuba and other foreign politicians.
    The Bush administration took the position that killing members of Al Qaeda, a terrorist group that attacked the United States and has pledged to attack it again, was no different from killing enemy soldiers in battle, and that therefore the agency was not constrained by the assassination ban.
    But former intelligence officials said that employing private contractors to help hunt Qaeda operatives would pose significant legal and diplomatic risks, and they might not be protected in the same way government employees are.
    Some Congressional Democrats have hinted that the program was just one of many that the Bush administration hid from Congressional scrutiny and have used the episode as a justification to delve deeper into other Bush-era counterterrorism programs.
    But Republicans have criticized Mr. Panetta’s decision to cancel the program, saying he created a tempest in a teapot.
    “I think there was a little more drama and intrigue than was warranted,” said Representative Peter Hoekstra of Michigan, the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee.
    Officials said that the C.I.A. program was devised partly as an alternative to missile strikes using drone aircraft, which have accidentally killed civilians and cannot be used in urban areas where some terrorists hide.
    Yet with most top Qaeda operatives believed to be hiding in the remote mountains of Pakistan, the drones have remained the C.I.A.’s weapon of choice. Like the Bush administration, the Obama administration has embraced the drone campaign because it presents a less risky option than sending paramilitary teams into Pakistan.
    Thank god this was shut down. Para-military hitsquads is not a good idea. Bad precedent.

  2. #2
    Frédéric Bastiat's Avatar Civis
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Where there is liberty, I call home.
    Posts
    185

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Me thinks this was a form of plausible deniability.

  3. #3

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Old news.

    On the flip side - Leon Panetta is a horrible DCI


  4. #4
    André Masséna's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Western Hemisphere
    Posts
    2,922

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Meh. It might have worked beautifully. It might have been a disaster. We'll never know. I won't judge it either way.
    America is an Apple pie
    with a few bad apples
    right toward the top.

  5. #5

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    very dangerous path.
    Have a question about China? Get your answer here.

  6. #6
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,615

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    So what?? Consider the fact that if Blackwater did not do it, US Army would deploy for that task - it is just who do that assassination, that is it.

    Now, is the topic focused on "No assassination during a war" or "US Army, instead a paramilitary organization, should be deployed to assassin some major war targets"??
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  7. #7
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    21,467

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    political assassinations are illegal rememba?
    the church hearings?

  8. #8
    cfmonkey45's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    8,222

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    political assassinations are illegal rememba?
    the church hearings?
    Huh?

  9. #9
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    21,467

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by cfmonkey45 View Post
    Huh?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

  10. #10

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by bushbush View Post
    very dangerous path.
    But not without precedent.

    During WWII the US government worked with the Mafia at times.
    "oooh a gypsy wind is blowing warm tonight, sky is starlit and the time is right. Now you're telling me you have to go...before you do there's something you should know." - Bob Seger

    Freedom is the distance between church and state.

  11. #11
    cfmonkey45's Avatar Praeses
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    8,222

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    That's not the issue, the issue is whether or not it is justifiable to give the authority to kill to the highest bidder. It's bad for international relations, bad for public support, and worse for ethics.

  12. #12
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,615

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by cfmonkey45 View Post
    That's not the issue, the issue is whether or not it is justifiable to give the authority to kill to the highest bidder. It's bad for international relations, bad for public support, and worse for ethics.
    1. The article never states Blackwater is the highest bidder - in fact, it never mentions why CIA wants to hire Blackwater at first.

    2. I never know kill or capture international criminals is bad - the only bad side for diplomacy is that it directly points out how useless some countries are, and no country really wants that (for example, if US government assassined a terrorist in Pakistan, it only suggest Pakistan government is useless to deal that terrorist by themselves - something that would greatly damage Pakistan's reputation).

    And if killing an international terrorist would bring a major ethnic riot, it means that ethnic prefer to use violent methods to achieve some crazy idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  13. #13
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    10,741

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by cfmonkey45 View Post
    That's not the issue, the issue is whether or not it is justifiable to give the authority to kill to the highest bidder. It's bad for international relations, bad for public support, and worse for ethics.

    This is nothing new. The only difference is that the US was not involved in things like this, before Iraq. There is a fine history of European and British PMC/PSC firms in Africa, stacking body bags, and targeting specific people. And a lot of the funding came on the hush-hush.

    The Belgians, French, Brits, Germans, Aussies, South Africans, etc...
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  14. #14
    hellheaven1987's Avatar Comes Domesticorum
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    The Hell called Conscription
    Posts
    35,615

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by BarnabyJones View Post
    This is nothing new. The only difference is that the US was not involved in things like this, before Iraq. There is a fine history of European and British PMC/PSC firms in Africa, stacking body bags, and targeting specific people. And a lot of the funding came on the hush-hush.

    The Belgians, French, Brits, Germans, Aussies, South Africans, etc...
    LOL...

    Yamamoto's case would disagree you, not to mention countless cases later on.

    Assassination is not something new, boy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Markas View Post
    Hellheaven, sometimes you remind me of King Canute trying to hold back the tide, except without the winning parable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Diocle View Post
    Cameron is midway between Black Rage and .. European Union ..

  15. #15
    mrmouth's Avatar flaxen haired argonaut
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    10,741

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by hellheaven1987 View Post
    LOL...

    Yamamoto's case would disagree you, not to mention countless cases later on.

    Assassination is not something new, boy.

    Again, since you cannot read, my comments were regarding assassinations, and modern PMC/PSC firms. Not that the CIA hasn't ever tried, or succeeded in assassination. Just not having used private contractors to our knowledge, before this.

    The comment was obviously an attempt to get people who will once again think the US has gone off the reservation, to also understand that this is something that democracies in Europe have a much deeper history in.

    And don't call me boy. I'm 8 years your senior, and I would be willing to bet Ive packed more into my life, than you have.
    The fascists of the future will be called anti-fascists
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity

  16. #16
    André Masséna's Avatar Vicarius
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Western Hemisphere
    Posts
    2,922

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    political assassinations are illegal rememba?
    the church hearings?
    Since when has International law meant anything?
    America is an Apple pie
    with a few bad apples
    right toward the top.

  17. #17
    .......................
    Civitate

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    33,982

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by André Masséna View Post
    Since when has International law meant anything?
    When it benefits the US of A.

  18. #18
    alhoon's Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Chania, Greece
    Posts
    24,223

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Why I'm not either suprised or repulsed by the news? CIA using some mercs to assassinate enemies. Sure, not a good precedent but do you really think it hasn't been done or tried before?

    Why you think assassins exist? To kill people. Sure, it's not good to kill people but someone has to do the dirty job. And let's not forget we're not talking about innocent civilians here.
    What I find repulsive is that CIA was caught. They are supposed to be good at this.

    Also I find it ... strange that they use hired help that could turn sides if the counter-offer was big enough.
    alhoon is not a member of the infamous Hoons: a (fictional) nazi-sympathizer KKK clan. Of course, no Hoon would openly admit affiliation to the uninitiated.
    "Angry Uncle Gordon" describes me well.
    _______________________________________________________
    Beta-tester for Darthmod Empire, the default modification for Empire Total War that does not ask for your money behind patreon.
    Developer of Causa Belli submod for Darthmod, headed by Hammeredalways and a ton of other people.
    Developer of LtC: Random maps submod for Lands to Conquer (that brings a multitude of random maps and other features).

  19. #19

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    What I find repulsive is that CIA was caught. They are supposed to be good at this.

    Also I find it ... strange that they use hired help that could turn sides if the counter-offer was big enough.
    They didn't get caught. They never did anything besides the planning stages of such an operation. When the DCI of the CIA comes forward with it to Congress that isn't getting caught.

    Anyways, I think the idea of using paramilitary specialists to do this sort of thing is a good idea. However, it's a bad idea to outsource them to PMCs, especially Blackwater which is particularly unprofessional in many instances. I could think of a couple of places I'd hire before them, but in general it's better to keep such a project in house. If they need more bodies for this sort of thing they can relax their stringent requirements to get into the Special Activities Division. They can attract all sorts of former military that would be willing to do some stuff like this for the CIA. It's bad form to use PMCs, even if they aren't the evil mercenaries that people compare them to from movies.

  20. #20
    Sosobra's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Oregon , USA
    Posts
    2,240

    Default Re: CIA Tried Using Blackwater for Assassination

    Quote Originally Posted by alhoon View Post
    Why I'm not either suprised or repulsed by the news? CIA using some mercs to assassinate enemies. Sure, not a good precedent but do you really think it hasn't been done or tried before?

    Why you think assassins exist? To kill people. Sure, it's not good to kill people but someone has to do the dirty job. And let's not forget we're not talking about innocent civilians here.
    What I find repulsive is that CIA was caught. They are supposed to be good at this.

    Also I find it ... strange that they use hired help that could turn sides if the counter-offer was big enough.
    While I am not naive enough to think black ops do not exist or should not exist , explaining away a private assassin is much more difficult then saying it was a government op, and borders on the lines of hiring a hitman...
    I find most people irritating
    SteamID:Sosobra

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •