Frederick the Great a Homosexual?

[boofhead]

Considering around 10% of humans are gay or bi or what have you, you'd pretty much have to say that a lot of famous people of the past were gay. 1 in 10, pretty much.

[TheUnionArmy]

Considering around 10% of humans are gay or bi or what have you, you'd pretty much have to say that a lot of famous people of the past were gay. 1 in 10, pretty much.

This may be true but I would have to insist that when considering great military figures of the past a smaller percentage of them than of the general population were homosexual, considering the harsh lifestyle of a soldier and the disgrace associated with it in those days. Although in my estimation people in the general population were also less likely to engage in this behavior in the 18th century and prior, for a variety of reasons. I am always suspicious when I hear that a famous historical figure is gay that it could be a rumor spread by their enemies.

[Opressor]

Or maybe he just thought that women would be his downfall, think of that Roman emperor whose mother was a total witch and got him to kill his wife or something (can't remember who). Some important historical figures just didn't have the time or capacity for relationships.

[pditty8811]

Well, this 1 in 10 statistic for gay people is for what time period? Just because, say, 1 in 10 people are gay today doesn't mean 1 in 10 people were gay in Prussia during the middle of the Eighteenth Century. I don't think people should ignore the facts about life and deny that some great military general might be gay because it ruins their conservative historic perspective taught in censored history textbooks. I think keeping an open-mind always helps. Moral issues and social norms evolve through time like everything else.

[boofhead]

Well, this 1 in 10 statistic for gay people is for what time period? Just because, say, 1 in 10 people are gay today doesn't mean 1 in 10 people were gay in Prussia during the middle of the Eighteenth Century.

I can't see why the stats back then wouldn't be similar to now. It's not like people just decide to become gay because it's more socially acceptable these days. People don't generally have a choice. I don't mean to take this off-topic though.

I don't think people should ignore the facts about life and deny that some great military general might be gay because it ruins their conservative historic perspective taught in censored history textbooks

I agree. We can't have schoolkids thinking of great, hard, fighting men as raving queers can we?

[rubenandthejets]

In that pre penicillin epoch he might have just kept it in his pants because of the fear of contagion or so he wouldn't spread his own cooties around to someone else. Being passionate about uniforms does not automatically make you a homosexual, nor does one anecdote about being moved by your soldiers.

The old rumour about Catherine the Great and her horse is still quoted as gospel on some internet sites (notably in those states where bestiality isn't a crime) but that doesn't make it true!

[littleleo]

First of all, I'm gay, i'm fireman (since 17 years and i think i'm as brave as my counterpart) and i know many man and woman in Police, Fire Service or Army who are gay. But they hide it because of the prejudices of others. 10% of people are gay : it's maybe a constant percentage in history of humanity. In fact, the visible part of gay population depend of the social acceptation. So in different times and different culture we cannot exactly know how many are we. For exemple in West European country or US states, it's easy to know (approximative stats) how many gay are we. But in Iran, like the iranian president said "homosexuality don't exist" (others dirigant laughing) ... but it's strange because i have some Iran gay boy's friend !!!! But they doesn't say to anyone in Iran what they are, just discuss with other stranger Gay ... they risk death !

So many great King, Emperor or General are gay, but they Hide it. They have some "particular" relationship with them "favorits" (like some french king, the brother of Louis XIV was notoriously gay for exemple) ... some great general have some favorite "ordonnance" ... ect ! IMO Frederick was gay but with many complexes !

The Human sexuality world is not shared between heterosexual and homosexual but between Men and Women who know that they love in sex (because they try to understand themself) and the other. Many gay people can have some heterosexual experinces and conversely. For example we know that Julius Ceasar was bisexual maybe more heterosexual than homosexual but he love both (an roman soldier to Ceasar during a verbal joust: " Cesar, the man of every women, and the woman of every men in Rome", after this quotation was resumed by a senator : Marcus Tullius Cicero, or his soldiers sang that : "Caesar may have conquered the Gauls, but Nicomedes conquered Caesar.") ... i think i remember that he was not a bad general lol ...

[micheljq]

Caesar was possibly bi as well. Frederick's brother was definately gay and he was also a good commander. The entire Spartan military system was based on state sponsored homosexuality. Bottom line, don't piss off gay people.

For Ceasar, he was nicknamed "The Queen of Bythinia" by his soldiers because of rumors of an homosexual relationship between him and the King of Bythinia while Caesar was younger.

For the Spartans I believe you are completely wrong, you must mix with the "Sacred Legion" of Mycenae I think, or is it another Greek city. This regiment was effectively composed of 300 male couples. Although there was homosexuality in Sparta or in Greece or Rome. It was considered relatively normal, but not necessarily encouraged.

[Dutchhoplite]

The Sacred band of Thebes, dear sir

[micheljq]

The Sacred band of Thebes, dear sir

Yes, makes sense now, thanks.

[Condottiere SOG]

It may even be to some degree psychological...if we are over-populated...the degree of social deviance may increase...if there is considerable loss of life(WW2), people are climbing over each other's back to pro-create. Consider the number of married men and women who 'came out of the closet' over the last 50 years.

I am pretty sure that Frederick the Great had an early homosexual relationship with a man by the surname of de Catt...and that Frederick's father had the man executed.

[joedreck]

I think Friedrich der Große was not homo and not hetero at later time we talk about. Maybe it had something to do with the sexual infection, which he got with women in his younger time and after that his joe was maimed by a doc. I read he don't sleep with someone, cause he feels humbled because of his joe and the women said he is a guy.

Fact is I never read about a guy or women he slept with in his later life, but he slept with min.1 women in his younger life.

[The Fool on The Hill]

It seems to me that Frederich was a-sexual, Allot of people always over look this possibility when discussing someones sexuality I guess they do not realize that it is not always Black & White.

[Condottiere SOG]

I think Friedrich der Große was not homo and not hetero at later time we talk about. Maybe it had something to do with the sexual infection, which he got with women in his younger time and after that his joe was maimed by a doc. I read he don't sleep with someone, cause he feels humbled because of his joe and the women said he is a guy.

Fact is I never read about a guy or women he slept with in his later life, but he slept with min.1 women in his younger life.

ummm...dude...its documented...you can't argue the point.

[Athena,]

Dont smear my Fredrick with these rumors.

[Condottiere SOG]

Dude its not a big deal...do you know how common homosexuality was in that period? I mean we now put a stigma on it...in antiquity it was accepted. Figure...our modern concept of racism is as old as the 1600s. Greeks Romans Medieval folk...didn't think about the color of a persons skin...nor of their sexuality. Homosexuality did not really become a no-no until government tried to control the ideology of its people...namely the late 1800s/early 1900s. You can't change history, bud, sorry...

I know Hitler really admired ol' Fritz...if he only knew. But them the 'monster' was not an intelligent person, considering state documents were at his disposal. LOL!

I am a big fan of Frederich der Große...a bigger fan than both of you. I wrote my senior thesis on the man. I plan to write a book about him. You dishonor his memory by putting up an useless fight. He had an homosexual relationship. He was fond of his sister, very fond of her. He wasn't a normal person, in a modern sense, by any means but was the first 'modern leader' to engender German unification and perhaps a better leader than Napoleon, or Bismarck...perhaps the best leader in early modern history. He has my respect. I accept the truth of his life!

They say Abe Lincoln was a normal guy but evidence suggests that his sexuality was not standard. It happens. Get over it.

[micheljq]

The austrian caporal must have been a repressed homosexual, loving big tall blondes with blue eyes.

[Condottiere SOG]

you never know sometimes...self loathing takes many forms...this is not to say that homosexuality is a bad thing. I truly believe that some people prefer it. There is a bit of eroticism involved with a craving for warfare...its an historical thing. The best soldiers in history have a legacy that is steeped in homo-eroticism.

[Dave Strider]

Gay, am I? Certainly not.



After all, he was Frederick II the Great of Prussia

[Condottiere SOG]

which means absolutely nothing in terms of this discussion...but I think I get your jest...