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  1. #1
    Ebusitanus's Avatar Senator
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    Default The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    http://www.albertmohler.com/blog_read.php?id=4230


    The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Posted: Monday, August 17, 2009 at 3:58 am ET


    America's long war over abortion has classically been defined as a struggle between competing rights -- depicted as the right of a woman to have an abortion versus the right of an unborn child to the protection of life. This long-familiar framing of the issue suggests, at the very least, that the rights of women and their unborn children are, or at least they can be, presented as an irresolvable conflict.

    From the very beginning, this has been an unsatisfactory approach to the abortion controversy. Those who contend for the sanctity of human life at every stage of development are, by virtue of moral necessity, also concerned with the health, welfare, and well-being of women. The reduction of the abortion question to a matter of "rights" is itself a symptom of our moral confusion.

    One of the most insidious aspects of the abortion controversy has been the success of the feminist movement in presenting abortion on demand as a matter central to the liberation of women. The feminist logic suggests that women can never be seen as equal to men in terms of career so long as the "risk" and reality of pregnancy and motherhood are present. As the feminists argue, abortion becomes a mechanism for leveling the playing field and for liberating women.

    As far back as the 1970s, at least some feminists saw through this logic. Catherine MacKinnon, a radical feminist legal scholar, argued that legal abortion would merely facilitate the "heterosexual availability" of women. In other words, abortion would be a benefit to men, who would be liberated to take sexual advantage of women, knowing that the availability of legal abortion would effectively remove their risk of the entanglements that would come with pregnancy and parenthood.

    MacKinnon is a radical legal theorist whose arguments on both abortion and pornography have been of considerable interest to conservatives for some time. Even as her ideology puts her on the far left of contemporary feminism, her argument that the availability of abortion and pornography is deeply injurious to women offers something of an awkward common ground with conservatives. At the very least, she is noteworthy for seeing what so many of her fellow feminists simply refuse to see.

    Writing in the August/September 2009 issue of First Things, Richard Stith argues that the legalization of abortion "was supposed to grant enormous freedom to women, but it has had the perverse result of freeing men and attracting women."

    Over 30 years after Roe v. Wade, we now know that abortion "has increased the expectation and frequency of sexual intercourse (including unprotected intercourse) among young people," Stith observes. As he explains, the post-Roe expectation is that a woman now has less justification for refusing the sexual advances of a male. By and large, abortion has liberated men from the fear of parenthood, if not of pregnancy. Beyond this, if the woman with whom they are having sex becomes pregnant, the availability of abortion serves, in the mind of men, to reduce if not to remove their responsibility for fatherhood.

    The availability of abortion means, in the thinking of many men, that the entire responsibility for pregnancy and parenthood now falls to women. If a woman refuses to have an abortion, having the baby is simply her "choice." As Stith realizes, this gives many men even more leverage as they demand an abortion as the cost of continuing the relationship. Stith cites a report from the Medical Science Monitor indicating that 64% of American women who have had abortions felt pressure from others to do so.

    As Stith explains:

    Prior to the legalization of abortion in the United States, it was commonly understood that a man should offer a woman marriage in case of pregnancy, and many did so. Though with the legalization of abortion, men started to feel that they were not responsible for the birth of children and consequently not under any obligation to marry. In gaining the option of abortion, many women have lost the option of marriage.
    The Culture of Death often presents itself in terms of liberation. Yet, at every turn, this liberation is actually an enslavement. The availability of legalized abortion has led to the deaths of over 40 million unborn children in the United States alone. Beyond this, it has produced a social catastrophe evident in patterns of female poverty and the abandonment of both women and children by irresponsible males. Furthermore, it has severely weakened the moral protections and obligations that bound men to women and children, effectively allowing men to demand abortion as a means of escaping their responsibility to marry and to take responsibility for their children.

    As Richard Stith rightly summarizes, "Elective abortion changes everything." As he explains, "A woman's choice for or against abortion breaks the causal link between conception and birth. It matters little what or who caused conception or whether the male insisted on having unprotected intercourse. It is she alone who finally decides whether the child comes into the world. She is the responsible one. For the first time in history, the father and the doctor and the health-insurance actuary can point a finger at her as the person who allowed an inconvenient human being to come into the world."

    The obvious question is this -- how is it that feminists, the abortion industry, and the advocates of abortion rights get away with their claim that abortion liberates women? In truth, the availability of abortion has served to liberate irresponsible men from duty, morality, and responsibility. Of course, the even greater tragedy is the death of unborn children by the millions. Only the Culture of Death would present the slaughter of the innocents as liberation.

    ----------------

    Taking reasonable precautions to prevent pregnancy in the majority of cases will equally empower women.
    As a means of contraception , abortion offends me greatly.
    Read a napoleonic first hand account of a Hessian serving under the french flag

    Athenians: For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretenses - either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us- and make a long speech which would not be believed;.......... since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

    Part of the Melian Dialogue in The History of the Pelopenessian War by Thucydides.

  2. #2

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    The responsibility of the pregnancy or parenthood has never been a question and has always fallen to the couple. It's the question of whether to go through with the pregnancy that has only come down to the woman's decision.

    For a woman, she really has this stuff mixed up and needs to get it straight.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    ahh so women should get back into the kitchen read the bible and mass procduce kids?

  4. #4
    Treize's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    ahh so women should get back into the kitchen read the bible and mass procduce kids?
    Dòhh, that's how it is supposed to be
    Miss me yet?

  5. #5

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Well always use condoms when

    and if it fails iré a México, Óle

  6. #6
    Carach's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    ahh so women should get back into the kitchen read the bible and mass procduce kids?
    a woman that can cook and clean, and be decent in the bedroom. That is a perfect woman.

    i tire of the rather irrational (wow who would have thunk it?!) feminist arguments on subjects as these. A man can ultimately do little if he's done the deed and got busted (in the form of a pregnancy) for it (as some men consider the event of pregnancy to be) - advice would be to give an alternate number, name and adress in the event of such incidents occuring.
    Last edited by Carach; August 21, 2009 at 07:46 PM.

  7. #7
    Dunecat's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    What a joke philosophy. Forget about a woman's right, it's all about stickin to the man for date-rape. Serve's him right! Now he'll have to deal with a baby! HAHAHAHA *evil feminist laughter*

    "Radical Feminist" = Crackpot.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Catherine MacKinnon, a radical feminist legal scholar, argued that legal abortion would merely facilitate the "heterosexual availability" of women. In other words, abortion would be a benefit to men, who would be liberated to take sexual advantage of women, knowing that the availability of legal abortion would effectively remove their risk of the entanglements that would come with pregnancy and parenthood.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Gotta love radical feminists, its always the mans fault

    heterosexual availability




    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  9. #9
    2-D Ron's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Catherine MacKinnon, a radical feminist legal scholar, argued that legal abortion would merely facilitate the "heterosexual availability" of women. In other words, abortion would be a benefit to men, who would be liberated to take sexual advantage of women, knowing that the availability of legal abortion would effectively remove their risk of the entanglements that would come with pregnancy and parenthood.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Gotta love radical feminists, its always the mans fault

    heterosexual availability





    Why the Majority of Head Anti-Abortionist speakers are Male Pastors and the usual. 'Females aren't smart enough to make their own decisions, so well speak for them'

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    Whether or not its intended as such, that's exactly what it is. It takes away the right of parents to make the decision for themselves. To make the right choice thats best for them and their child. Taking away the power of the citizens to choose whats best for them and giving it to government mandate. That is statism. It forces the morality of some onto policy over all. It's a slippery slope.
    The Irony!
    "We wawnt no Goooovernment run Healthcare telling us what to doooo!!! Riiight I'm off to force women not to have an abortion."
    Last edited by 2-D Ron; August 19, 2009 at 07:08 PM.

  10. #10
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Seems to me she just came up with that whack theory in order to unify her own feminist and anti-abortion feelings.
    Nobody would come up with such nonsense if they didn't have some conflicting views to untangle.



  11. #11

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    To be honest i can see how this makes sense. Maybe not with more educated men maybe, But i can see a lot of people i know who would be all too happy to evade the question of consequences by making sure no matter what a women gets an abortion , or if not, whats the stigma? a womens the one being an idiot.

  12. #12

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Quote Originally Posted by roy34543 View Post
    To be honest i can see how this makes sense. Maybe not with more educated men maybe, But i can see a lot of people i know who would be all too happy to evade the question of consequences by making sure no matter what a women gets an abortion , or if not, whats the stigma? a womens the one being an idiot.
    I suppose you could say thats true in the lower classes, only it seems that there is status in said classes for having illegitimate children.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

  13. #13
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    lololol

    This is bat insane, but that's what lets me lol at this

  14. #14

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    If you make abortians illegal,
    the women will have done it illegal
    or travel to a country where it is legal.


    I can't see how it empowers men.
    The choice empowers women, becuase they don't need to marry the men
    when they become accidently pregnant.
    Last edited by Chlodwig I.; August 19, 2009 at 12:48 PM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Chlodwig I. View Post
    If you make abortians illegal,
    the women will have done it illegal
    or travel to a country where it is legal.


    I can't see how it empowers men.
    The choice empowers women, becuase they don't need to marry the men
    when they become accidently pregnant.
    If its legal that means its easy to get = No social stigma associated with leaving a pregnant woman in the dust, because she can get an abortian anyway

    If its difficult/risky to get = Men (should) feel obligated to stay with the women, at least until she actually gets an abortion in case she cant. And if he leaves her theres a stigma associated with abondoning a single mother.

    the problem? sometimes its not easy for a woman to get an abortion, It could be too expensive, Could be no doctor that can do it nearby, Maybe her family objects.

  16. #16

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Quote Originally Posted by roy34543 View Post
    If its legal that means its easy to get = No social stigma associated with leaving a pregnant woman in the dust, because she can get an abortian anyway

    If its difficult/risky to get = Men (should) feel obligated to stay with the women, at least until she actually gets an abortion in case she cant. And if he leaves her theres a stigma associated with abondoning a single mother.
    ....

    Maybe her family objects.
    This is an outrageously huge strawman for the same reasons you are assuming that abortions empower men. If you wan't to say that men can leave the woman with no stigma because its been put up as her choice to get an abortion, you'd best not start insisting that family pressure has anything to do with whether or not she gets an abortion. After all, you just got done making a (rather disagreeable and logically fallacious mannered, but that's not my point) case that it's HER choice.
    One thing is for certain: the more profoundly baffled you have been in your life, the more open your mind becomes to new ideas.
    -Neil deGrasse Tyson

    Let's think the unthinkable, let's do the undoable. Let us prepare to grapple with the ineffable itself, and see if we may not eff it after all.

  17. #17

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Quote Originally Posted by roy34543 View Post
    If its legal that means its easy to get = No social stigma associated with leaving a pregnant woman in the dust, because she can get an abortian anyway

    If its difficult/risky to get = Men (should) feel obligated to stay with the women, at least until she actually gets an abortion in case she cant. And if he leaves her theres a stigma associated with abondoning a single mother.

    the problem? sometimes its not easy for a woman to get an abortion, It could be too expensive, Could be no doctor that can do it nearby, Maybe her family objects.
    well when abortion was illegal, the stigmata wasn't placed on the men who leaves the wife but on the wife for not keeping her chastity, getting pregnant without beeing marriaged etc.
    The Stigmata was always on the women.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Stith cites a report from the Medical Science Monitor indicating that 64% of American women who have had abortions felt pressure from others to do so.
    This isn;t exactly a revelation.

  19. #19

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Anybody who suggests that women use abortion as a contraceptive are completely ing ignorant of what an abortion involves. By the way, op's argument that abortion should be criminalises becausecwe have condoms shows further ignorance of the realiability of condoms, or any contraceptions.

    I am so sick of virgins that want to regulate my sex life.

  20. #20

    Default Re: The Hidden Reality of Abortion -- Empowering Men

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Anybody who suggests that women use abortion as a contraceptive are completely ing ignorant of what an abortion involves. By the way, op's argument that abortion should be criminalises becausecwe have condoms shows further ignorance of the realiability of condoms, or any contraceptions.

    I am so sick of virgins that want to regulate my sex life.
    I know two women who use it as contraception. The one has had 8 by age 35.

    I'm not suggesting it, I'm telling you.
    "When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."

    My shameful truth.

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