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  1. #1
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    Default Is There Justice In This World?

    food for thought:
    Is justice right side up?
    Has world justice been frozen in an upside-down position?

    The shoe-thrower of Iraq, the man who hurled his shoes at Bush, was condemned to three years in prison. Doesn’t he deserve, instead, a medal?

    Who is the terrorist? The hurler of shoes or their recipient? Is not the real terrorist the serial killer who, lying, fabricated the Iraq war, massacred a multitude, and legalized and ordered torture?

    Who are the guilty ones--the people of Atenco, in Mexico, the indigenous Mapuches of Chile, the Kekchies of Guatemala, the landless peasants of Brazil—all being accused of the crime of terrorism for defending their right to their own land? If the earth is sacred, even if the law does not say so, aren’t its defenders sacred too?

    According to Foreign Policy Magazine, Somalia is the most dangerous place in the world. But who are the pirates? The starving people who attack ships or the speculators of Wall Street who spent years attacking the world and who are now rewarded with many millions of dollars for their pains?

    Why does the world reward its ransackers?

    Why is justice a one-eyed blind woman? Wal-Mart, the most powerful corporation on earth, bans trade unions. McDonald's, too. Why do these corporations violate, with criminal impunity, international law? Is it because in this contemporary world of ours, work is valued as lower than trash and workers' rights are valued even less?

    Who are the righteous and who are the villains? If international justice really exists, why are the powerful never judged? The masterminds of the worst butcheries are never sent to prison. Is it because it is these butchers themselves who hold the prison keys?

    What makes the five nations with veto power in the United Nations inviolable? Is it of a divine origin, that veto power of theirs? Can you trust those who profit from war to guard the peace?
    Is it fair that world peace is in the hands of the very five nations who are also the world’s main producers of weapons? Without implying any disrespect to the drug runners, couldn’t we refer to this arrangement as yet another example of organized crime?

    Those who clamor, everywhere, for the death penalty are strangely silent about the owners of the world. Even worse, these clamorers forever complain about knife-wielding murderers, yet say nothing about missile-wielding arch-murderers.

    And one asks oneself: Given that these self-righteous world owners are so enamored of killing, why pray don’t they try to aim their murderous proclivities at social injustice? Is it a just a world when, every minute, three million dollars are wasted on the military, while at the same time fifteen children perish from hunger or curable disease? Against whom is the so-called international community armed to the teeth? Against poverty or against the poor?

    Why don’t the champions of capital punishment direct their ire at the values of the consumer society, values which pose a daily threat to public safety? Or doesn’t, perhaps, the constant bombardment of advertising constitute an invitation to crime? Doesn’t that bombardment numb millions and millions of unemployed or poorly paid youth, endlessly teaching them the lie that “to be = to have,” that life derives its meaning from ownership of such things as cars or brand name shoes? Own, own, they keep saying, implying that he who has nothing is, himself, nothing.


    Why isn’t the death penalty applied to death itself? The world is organized in the service of death. Isn’t it true that the military industrial complex manufactures death and devours the greater part of our resources as well as a good part of our energies? Yet the owners of the world only condemn violence when it is exercised by others. To extraterrestrials, if they existed, such monopoly of violence would appear inexplicable. It likewise appears insupportable to earth dwellers who, against all the available evidence, hope for survival: we humans are the only animals who specialize in mutual extermination, and who have developed a technology of destruction that is annihilating, coincidentally, our planet and all its inhabitants.


    This technology sustains itself on fear. It is the fear of enemies that justifies the squandering of resources by the military and police. And speaking about implementing the death penalty, why don’t we pass a death sentence on fear itself? Would it not behoove us to end this universal dictatorship of the professional scaremongers? The sowers of panic condemn us to loneliness, keeping solidarity outside our reach: falsely teaching us that we live in a dog-eat-dog world, that he who can must crush his fellows, that danger is lurking behind every neighbor. Watch out, they keep saying, be careful, this neighbor will steal from you, that other one will rape you, that baby carriage hides a Muslim bomb, and that woman who is watching you--that innocent-looking neighbor of yours—will surely infect you with swine flu.


    In this upside-down world, they are making us afraid of even the most elementary acts of justice and common sense. When President Evo Morales started to re-build Bolivia, so that his country with its indigenous majority will no longer feel shame facing a mirror, his actions provoked panic. Morales’ challenge was indeed catastrophic from the traditional standpoint of the racist order, whose beneficiaries felt that theirs was the only possible option for Bolivia. It was Evo, they felt, who ushered in chaos and violence, and this alleged crime justified efforts to blow up national unity and break Bolivia into pieces. And when President Correa of Ecuador refused to pay the illegitimate debts of his country, the news caused terror in the financial world and Ecuador was threatened with dire punishment, for daring to set such a bad example. If the military dictatorships and roguish politicians have always been pampered by international banks, have we not already conditioned ourselves to accept it as our inevitable fate that the people must pay for the club that hits them and for the greed that plunders them?


    But, have common sense and justice always been divorced from each other?

    Were not common sense and justice meant to walk hand in hand, intimately linked?
    Aren’t common sense, and also justice, in accord with the feminist slogan which states that if we, men, had to go through pregnancy, abortion would have been free. Why not legalize the right to have an abortion? Is it because abortion will then cease being the sole privilege of the women who can afford it and of the physicians who can charge for it?

    The same thing is observed with another scandalous case of denial of justice and common sense: why aren’t drugs legal? Is this not, like abortion, a public health issue? And the very same country that counts in its population more drug addicts than any other country in the world, what moral authority does it have to condemn its drug suppliers? And why don’t the mass media, in their dedication to the war against the scourge of drugs, ever divulge that it is Afghanistan which single-handedly satisfies just about all the heroin consumed in the world? Who rules Afghanistan? Is it not militarily occupied by a messianic country which conferred upon itself the mission of saving us all?

    Why aren’t drugs legalized once and for all? Is it because they provide the best pretext for military invasions, in addition to providing the juiciest profits to the large banks who, in the darkness of night, serve as money-laundering centers?

    Nowadays the world is sad because fewer vehicles are sold. One of the consequences of the global crisis is a decline of the otherwise prosperous car industry. Had we some shred of common sense, a mere fragment of a sense of justice, would we not celebrate this good news?
    Could anyone deny that a decline in the number of automobiles is good for nature, seeing that she will end up with a bit less poison in her veins? Could anyone deny the value of this decline in car numbers to pedestrians, seeing that fewer of them will die?

    Here’s how Lewis Carroll’s queen explained to Alice how justice is dispensed in a looking-glass world:
    “There’s the King’s Messenger. He’s in prison now, being punished: and the trial doesn’t begin until next Wednesday: and of course the crime comes last of all.”
    In El Salvador, Archbishop Oscar Arnulfo Romero found that justice, like a snake, only bites barefoot people. He died of gunshot wounds, for proclaiming that in his country the dispossessed were condemned from the very start, on the day of their birth.
    Couldn’t the outcome of the recent elections in El Salvador be viewed, in some ways, as a homage to Archbishop Romero and to the thousands who, like him, died fighting for right-side-up justice in this reign of injustice?
    At times the narratives of History end badly, but she, History itself, never ends. When she says goodbye, she only says: I’ll be back.
    Eduardo Galeano is the sage of the Americas. Galeano's classics include: Open Veins of Latin America and Genesis.
    source: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=14767
    Last edited by Exarch; August 16, 2009 at 09:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    I'd be surprised if I'm the only one who doesn't want to read a wall of badly edited text, though I suspect I'd agree with the thrust of it based off the first paragraph.

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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    I'm not reading that. Please summarize it.

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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by A pimp named Slickback View Post
    I'm not reading that. Please summarize it.
    basically
    how can we allow people with power to commit crimes and get away with it and yet punish others who have no power?
    isnt justice meant to be blind?
    sure we'll have a good show trial every now and then where the media has PMS over a murderer/rapist/child killer but rich and powerful ppl who commit the same crimes get away with it, even if it was only in an office miles and miles away.

    we live in a corrupt society if we can just let ppl like that off the hook and i dont care what ppl say; corruption of this scale....

  5. #5
    Avendiel's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    how can we allow people with power to commit crimes and get away with it and yet punish others who have no power?
    Didn't you just answer your own question?

  6. #6
    Tuor's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avendiel View Post
    Didn't you just answer your own question?
    Don't you know the answer to yours?

  7. #7
    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Laws are made by the victors a whole system of justice is created by the victors, now I don't want to get very one sided because in this cases the limits between victims and victimizer might be very blurry.

    But in my opinion justice(our subjective view of it) is served, most times, by simple coincidence law=/=justice that's for sure but sometimes some people are rewarded/punished by life itself other times they're not, it's karma really, do good and good 'll be done unto you do bad and you'll suffer the consequences, of course this doesn't applies always some really bad motherers got away with it and were never punished during their lives(mostly politicians) and many more will.

    But yeah there's justice the thing is that it's simply swarmed by the huge amount of injustice all the time. For 1 just act you have like 10 unjust ones.
    Last edited by Claudius Gothicus; August 16, 2009 at 11:03 PM.

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    basically
    how can we allow people with power to commit crimes and get away with it and yet punish others who have no power?
    isnt justice meant to be blind?
    sure we'll have a good show trial every now and then where the media has PMS over a murderer/rapist/child killer but rich and powerful ppl who commit the same crimes get away with it, even if it was only in an office miles and miles away.

    we live in a corrupt society if we can just let ppl like that off the hook and i dont care what ppl say; corruption of this scale....
    You gave yourself the answer.

    Next to that:

    Is justice right side up?
    Has world justice been frozen in an upside-down position?

    The shoe-thrower of Iraq, the man who hurled his shoes at Bush, was condemned to three years in prison. Doesn’t he deserve, instead, a medal?

    Who is the terrorist? The hurler of shoes or their recipient? Is not the real terrorist the serial killer who, lying, fabricated the Iraq war, massacred a multitude, and legalized and ordered torture?
    Why should he get a medal? Because he is someone who dared to threw a shoe to him? There are plenty of people who do the same things. I don't hear them be remembered or so. Only because he threw a shoe to George W. Bush?

    Who was committing a fault by throwing the shoe? Bush or the thrower? If he did hurt Bush (In all forms of the verb To hurt) who was committing the crime then? Bush or he?

    Now my friend; what is justice?

    As I said before: "Revenge is not always justified but justice is revenge itself."

  9. #9
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Exarch View Post
    food for thought:
    source: http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=14767

    Is justice right side up?
    Has world justice been frozen in an upside-down position?

    The shoe-thrower of Iraq, the man who hurled his shoes at Bush, was condemned to three years in prison. Doesn’t he deserve, instead, a medal? Who is the terrorist? The hurler of shoes or their recipient? Is not the real terrorist the serial killer who, lying, fabricated the Iraq war, massacred a multitude, and legalized and ordered torture?
    Yes I can agree with his point here.

    Who are the guilty ones--the people of Atenco, in Mexico, the indigenous Mapuches of Chile, the Kekchies of Guatemala, the landless peasants of Brazil—all being accused of the crime of terrorism for defending their right to their own land? If the earth is sacred, even if the law does not say so, aren’t its defenders sacred too?
    Only if they own the rights to it. I was heartened to hear that people across South America are suing for damage done to their land by oil companies despite them having been granted immunity by their own governments, the lawsuit does not recognise the governments right to recognise and represent the interest of its peoples.

    According to Foreign Policy Magazine, Somalia is the most dangerous place in the world. But who are the pirates? The starving people who attack ships or the speculators of Wall Street who spent years attacking the world and who are now rewarded with many millions of dollars for their pains?

    Why does the world reward its ransackers?

    Why is justice a one-eyed blind woman? Wal-Mart, the most powerful corporation on earth, bans trade unions. McDonald's, too. Why do these corporations violate, with criminal impunity, international law? Is it because in this contemporary world of ours, work is valued as lower than trash and workers' rights are valued even less?
    Nothing wrong with banning trade unions, private company can enact that policy if it wishes.

    In the UK at least Mcdonalds and Walmart are exceptionally good people to work for.

    Who are the righteous and who are the villains? If international justice really exists, why are the powerful never judged? The masterminds of the worst butcheries are never sent to prison. Is it because it is these butchers themselves who hold the prison keys?

    What makes the five nations with veto power in the United Nations inviolable? Is it of a divine origin, that veto power of theirs? Can you trust those who profit from war to guard the peace?
    Is it fair that world peace is in the hands of the very five nations who are also the world’s main producers of weapons? Without implying any disrespect to the drug runners, couldn’t we refer to this arrangement as yet another example of organized crime?

    Those who clamor, everywhere, for the death penalty are strangely silent about the owners of the world. Even worse, these clamorers forever complain about knife-wielding murderers, yet say nothing about missile-wielding arch-murderers.

    And one asks oneself: Given that these self-righteous world owners are so enamored of killing, why pray don’t they try to aim their murderous proclivities at social injustice? Is it a just a world when, every minute, three million dollars are wasted on the military, while at the same time fifteen children perish from hunger or curable disease? Against whom is the so-called international community armed to the teeth? Against poverty or against the poor?

    Why don’t the champions of capital punishment direct their ire at the values of the consumer society, values which pose a daily threat to public safety? Or doesn’t, perhaps, the constant bombardment of advertising constitute an invitation to crime? Doesn’t that bombardment numb millions and millions of unemployed or poorly paid youth, endlessly teaching them the lie that “to be = to have,” that life derives its meaning from ownership of such things as cars or brand name shoes? Own, own, they keep saying, implying that he who has nothing is, himself, nothing.


    Why isn’t the death penalty applied to death itself? The world is organized in the service of death. Isn’t it true that the military industrial complex manufactures death and devours the greater part of our resources as well as a good part of our energies? Yet the owners of the world only condemn violence when it is exercised by others. To extraterrestrials, if they existed, such monopoly of violence would appear inexplicable. It likewise appears insupportable to earth dwellers who, against all the available evidence, hope for survival: we humans are the only animals who specialize in mutual extermination, and who have developed a technology of destruction that is annihilating, coincidentally, our planet and all its inhabitants.


    This technology sustains itself on fear. It is the fear of enemies that justifies the squandering of resources by the military and police. And speaking about implementing the death penalty, why don’t we pass a death sentence on fear itself? Would it not behoove us to end this universal dictatorship of the professional scaremongers? The sowers of panic condemn us to loneliness, keeping solidarity outside our reach: falsely teaching us that we live in a dog-eat-dog world, that he who can must crush his fellows, that danger is lurking behind every neighbor. Watch out, they keep saying, be careful, this neighbor will steal from you, that other one will rape you, that baby carriage hides a Muslim bomb, and that woman who is watching you--that innocent-looking neighbor of yours—will surely infect you with swine flu.


    In this upside-down world, they are making us afraid of even the most elementary acts of justice and common sense. When President Evo Morales started to re-build Bolivia, so that his country with its indigenous majority will no longer feel shame facing a mirror, his actions provoked panic. Morales’ challenge was indeed catastrophic from the traditional standpoint of the racist order, whose beneficiaries felt that theirs was the only possible option for Bolivia. It was Evo, they felt, who ushered in chaos and violence, and this alleged crime justified efforts to blow up national unity and break Bolivia into pieces. And when President Correa of Ecuador refused to pay the illegitimate debts of his country, the news caused terror in the financial world and Ecuador was threatened with dire punishment, for daring to set such a bad example. If the military dictatorships and roguish politicians have always been pampered by international banks, have we not already conditioned ourselves to accept it as our inevitable fate that the people must pay for the club that hits them and for the greed that plunders them?


    But, have common sense and justice always been divorced from each other?

    Were not common sense and justice meant to walk hand in hand, intimately linked?
    Aren’t common sense, and also justice, in accord with the feminist slogan which states that if we, men, had to go through pregnancy, abortion would have been free. Why not legalize the right to have an abortion? Is it because abortion will then cease being the sole privilege of the women who can afford it and of the physicians who can charge for it?

    The same thing is observed with another scandalous case of denial of justice and common sense: why aren’t drugs legal? Is this not, like abortion, a public health issue? And the very same country that counts in its population more drug addicts than any other country in the world, what moral authority does it have to condemn its drug suppliers? And why don’t the mass media, in their dedication to the war against the scourge of drugs, ever divulge that it is Afghanistan which single-handedly satisfies just about all the heroin consumed in the world? Who rules Afghanistan? Is it not militarily occupied by a messianic country which conferred upon itself the mission of saving us all?

    Why aren’t drugs legalized once and for all? Is it because they provide the best pretext for military invasions, in addition to providing the juiciest profits to the large banks who, in the darkness of night, serve as money-laundering centers?

    Nowadays the world is sad because fewer vehicles are sold. One of the consequences of the global crisis is a decline of the otherwise prosperous car industry. Had we some shred of common sense, a mere fragment of a sense of justice, would we not celebrate this good news?
    Could anyone deny that a decline in the number of automobiles is good for nature, seeing that she will end up with a bit less poison in her veins? Could anyone deny the value of this decline in car numbers to pedestrians, seeing that fewer of them will die?

    Here’s how Lewis Carroll’s queen explained to Alice how justice is dispensed in a looking-glass world:
    “There’s the King’s Messenger. He’s in prison now, being punished: and the trial doesn’t begin until next Wednesday: and of course the crime comes last of all.”
    In El Salvador, Archbishop Oscar Arnulfo Romero found that justice, like a snake, only bites barefoot people. He died of gunshot wounds, for proclaiming that in his country the dispossessed were condemned from the very start, on the day of their birth.
    Couldn’t the outcome of the recent elections in El Salvador be viewed, in some ways, as a homage to Archbishop Romero and to the thousands who, like him, died fighting for right-side-up justice in this reign of injustice?
    At times the narratives of History end badly, but she, History itself, never ends. When she says goodbye, she only says: I’ll be back.
    Eduardo Galeano is the sage of the Americas. Galeano's classics include: Open Veins of Latin America and Genesis.
    It is a bit wordy bit generalised way of saying you can't trust governments and people with power. I can agree as I said earlier. Not really going to advance the arguements much though.

  10. #10
    C-Rob's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    all I read is, "dib dib" yhea, the world is hell, get used to it.

    Or get the power to change it. In whatever way you see fit.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Rob View Post
    all I read is, "dib dib" yhea, the world is hell, get used to it.

    Or get the power to change it. In whatever way you see fit.
    word.


  12. #12
    André Masséna's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    There is no "real" justice in this life.

    The next however....perhaps. We might actually get some justice for a change.
    America is an Apple pie
    with a few bad apples
    right toward the top.

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    Alkarin's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by André Masséna View Post
    There is no "real" justice in this life.

    The next however....perhaps. We might actually get some justice for a change.
    yea i love waiting for justice in a supernatural would that theirs a 99.9% chance does not exist.

    just what i want
    You look great today.

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    Kjertesvein's Avatar Remember to smile
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Follow the money, because there is no universal justice. Some fight back against these uphill battles, rarly the government them self, some do...

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The Government Pension Fund - Global - Facts:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    (Norwegian: Statens pensjonsfond - Utland) is a fund into which the surplus wealth produced by Norwegian petroleum income is deposited. The fund changed name in January 2006 from its previous name The Petroleum Fund of Norway. The fund is commonly referred to as The Petroleum Fund (Norwegian: Oljefondet). As of the valuation in June 2007, it was the largest pension fund in Europe and the fourth largest in the world [1], although it is not actually a pension fund as it derives its financial backing from oil profits and not pension contributions. As of 30 June 2009 its total value is NOK 2.385 trillion ($395 billion)[2], holding 0.77 per cent of global equity markets.[3] With 1.25 per cent of European stocks,[4] it is said to be the largest stock owner in Europe.[5]
    The purpose of the petroleum fund is to invest parts of the large surplus generated by the Norwegian petroleum sector, generated mainly from taxes of companies, but also payment for license to explore as well as the State's Direct Financial Interest and dividends from partly state-owned StatoilHydro. Current revenue from the petroleum sector is estimated to be at its peak period and to decline over the next decades. The Petroleum Fund was established in 1990 after a decision by the legislature assembly Storting to counter the effects of the forthcoming decline in income and to smooth out the disrupting effects of highly fluctuating oil prices.
    The fund is managed by Norges Bank Investment Management (NBIM), a part of the Norwegian Central Bank on behalf of the Ministry of Finance. It is currently the largest pension fund in Europe and similar in size to the California public-employees pension fund (CalPERS), the largest public pension fund in the United States. NBIM forecasts that the fund will reach NOK 2.794 trillion ($463 billion) by the end of 2009 and NOK 4.769 trillion ($791 billion) by the end of 2014[6]. Since 1998 the fund has been allowed to invest up to 40% of its portfolio in the international stock market. In 2007 the Ministry decided to raise the stock portion to 60 %. This was achieved in August 2009.

    Debate

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Due to the large size of the fund relative to the low number of people living in Norway (4.7 million people in 2006), the Petroleum Fund has become a hot political issue, dominated by three main issues:

    • Whether the country should use more of the petroleum revenues for the state budget instead of saving the funds for the future. The main matter of debate is to what degree increased government spending will increase inflation.
    • Whether the high level of exposure (around 60% in 2008) to the highly volatile, and therefore risky, stock market is financially safe. Others claim that the high differentiation and extreme long term of the investments will dilute the risk and that the state is losing considerable amounts of money due to the low investment percentage in the stock market.
    • Whether the investment policy of the Petroleum Fund is ethical.



    As of 30 June 2009 The Government Pension Fund - Global total value is NOK 2.385 trillion ($395 billion)[2], holding 0.77 per cent of global equity markets.[3] With 1.25 per cent of European stocks,[4] it is said to be the largest stock owner in Europe.[5]
    The Ethical Council

    Part of the investment policy debate is related to the discovery of several cases of investment by The Petroleum Fund in highly controversial companies, involved in businesses such as arms production and tobacco. The Petroleum Fund’s Advisory Council on Ethics was established November 19, 2004 by royal decree. Accordingly, the Ministry of Finance issued a new regulation on the management of the Government Petroleum Fund which also includes ethical guidelines.

    Excluded companies

    The following companies have been excluded from the Government Pension Fund of Norway due to activities in breach of the Ethical Guidelines [7]
    The list of unethical companies banned fromt he huge investment fond:


    The companies from these countrys violated ethics and are excluded for atleast 1 of the following charges;


    • Maintenance of ICBM's or production of engines for ICBMs.
    • Production of (components for) cluster munitions.
    • Serious, severe and extensive environmental damage.
    • Production of nuclear missiles and n. weapons or simulations of nuclear explosions.
    • Production of anti-personnel landmines
    • Human rights abuses.
    • Breach of labour rights

    1 of the deals was a 882 m. $ deal with the UK company, Rio Tinto Group for severe environmental damage[16].
    Last edited by Kjertesvein; August 19, 2009 at 07:11 AM.
    Thorolf was thus armed. Then Thorolf became so furious that he cast his shield on his back, and, grasping his halberd with both hands, bounded forward dealing cut and thrust on either side. Men sprang away from him both ways, but he slew many. Thus he cleared the way forward to earl Hring's standard, and then nothing could stop him. He slew the man who bore the earl's standard, and cut down the standard-pole. After that he lunged with his halberd at the earl's breast, driving it right through mail and body, so that it came out at the shoulders; and he lifted him up on the halberd over his head, and planted the butt-end in the ground. There on the weapon the earl breathed out his life in sight of all, both friends and foes. [...] 53, Egil's Saga
    I must tell you here of some amusing tricks the Comte d'Eu played on us. I had made a sort of house for myself in which my knights and I used to eat, sitting so as to get the light from the door, which, as it happened, faced the Comte d'Eu's quarters. The count, who was a very ingenious fellow, had rigged up a miniature ballistic machine with which he could throw stones into my tent. He would watch us as we were having our meal, adjust his machine to suit the length of our table, and then let fly at us, breaking our pots and glasses.
    - The pranks played on the knight Jean de Joinville, 1249, 7th crusade.













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  15. #15
    Daeger's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Didn't bother reading the op, but answer for the title is: Yes, but there is no ultimate justice. There is justice in the form of laws and punishments, but since we are not able to bring everyone to justice for everything, there is no justice for everything. Justice is inperfect.

    Of course people who deny the truth, lie to themselves that everyone is brought to justice by god, because they can't accept the fact that our justice is most likely the only kind of justice we get.

    Yea, Hitler was a douche and he didn't get punished properly, because he killed himself. Deal with it. He isn't burning eternally in hell. Frankly, I don't want Hitler to burn in hell, because that would need hell to exist and that would suck for everyone with a fully functioning brain.


  16. #16
    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daeger View Post
    Yea, Hitler was a douche and he didn't get punished properly, because he killed himself. Deal with it. He isn't burning eternally in hell. Frankly, I don't want Hitler to burn in hell, because that would need hell to exist and that would suck for everyone with a fully functioning brain.
    Still karma teared down his image.
    Damnation, forever be remember as a monster and a destruction of his dreams are going to punish him for a long time IMO.

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  17. #17
    Daeger's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Claudius Gothicus View Post
    Still karma teared down his image.
    Damnation, forever be remember as a monster and a destruction of his dreams are going to punish him for a long time IMO.
    I doubt he gives a crap. He is dead.


  18. #18
    Claudius Gothicus's Avatar Petit Burgués
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daeger View Post
    I doubt he gives a crap. He is dead.
    Of course, but even if his body has already disappeared and he's dead so can't give a crap, what remains are the memories in our minds, and regarding Hitler or other World leaders those memories are not very good.

    In the end you're just a memories If you're a bad or a forgotten one you've been punished by society memory.

    On the other hand some guys did some very ugly and still have large masses of people to stand up for them, just like some commie leaders those are the ones gettting away with it, for now...

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  19. #19
    Tankbuster's Avatar Analogy Nazi
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    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    There will be justice in this world if we make sure there is.
    Which is why the UN and similar organisations are going to great lengths to build international courts, and which is why there is (at a smaller scale) a police force, and courts, and prisons,...

    But it's not intrinsically there of course. There's no such thing as karma; sometimes your bad acts catch up to you, sometimes they don't. Just the laws of probability at work there, not divine planning or karma.

    The sad truth is that unless humans institutionalise a system that tries to assure justice, it won't occur by itself.
    Don't hope for a just second life... better make sure that we do what we can to make the first one as good and as fair as we can.
    The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath
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    Atheism is simply a way of clearing the space for better conservations.
    --- Sam Harris

  20. #20

    Default Re: Is There Justice In This World?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daeger View Post
    Didn't bother reading the op, but answer for the title is: Yes, but there is no ultimate justice. There is justice in the form of laws and punishments, but since we are not able to bring everyone to justice for everything, there is no justice for everything. Justice is inperfect.

    Of course people who deny the truth, lie to themselves that everyone is brought to justice by god, because they can't accept the fact that our justice is most likely the only kind of justice we get.

    Yea, Hitler was a douche and he didn't get punished properly, because he killed himself. Deal with it. He isn't burning eternally in hell. Frankly, I don't want Hitler to burn in hell, because that would need hell to exist and that would suck for everyone with a fully functioning brain.
    That's going to suck for brain dead douches like u. Since humans are inperfect so is justice. There is a ultimate justice whether u believe or it, ur disbelief doesnt make it not exist.

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