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  1. #1
    B5C's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    White House appears ready to drop 'public option'



    WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama's administration signaled on Sunday it is ready to abandon the idea of giving Americans the option of government-run health insurance as part of his ambitious health care proposal.

    Facing mounting opposition to the overhaul, administration officials left open the chance for a compromise with Republicans that would include health insurance cooperatives. Such a concession is likely to enrage his liberal supporters but could deliver Obama a much-needed win on a top domestic priority opposed by GOP lawmakers.

    Officials from both political parties reached across the aisle in an effort to find compromises on proposals they left behind when they returned to their districts for an August recess.

    Obama has been pressing for the government to run a health insurance organization to help cover the nation's almost 50 million uninsured, but Republicans remain steadfast in arguing against it.

    Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said that government alternative to private health insurance is "not the essential element" of the administration's health care overhaul. The White House would be open to co-ops, she said, a sign that Democrats want a compromise so they can declare a victory on the showdown.

    "I think there will be a competitor to private insurers," Sebelius said. "That's really the essential part, is you don't turn over the whole new marketplace to private insurance companies and trust them to do the right thing."

    Obama's top spokesman refused to say a public option was a make-or-break choice for the administration.

    "What I am saying is the bottom line for this for the president is, what we have to have is choice and competition in the insurance market," White House press secretary Robert Gibbs said.

    Sen. Kent Conrad, D-N.D., chairman of the Senate's budget committee, pushed the co-op model as an alternative.

    "It's not government-run and government-controlled," he said. "It's membership-run and membership-controlled. But it does provide a nonprofit competitor for the for-profit insurance companies, and that's why it has appeal on both sides."

    As proposed by Conrad, the co-ops would receive federal startup money, but then would operate independently of the government. They would have to maintain the same financial reserves that private companies are required to keep to handle unexpectedly high claims.

    Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., said Obama's team is making a political calculation and embracing the co-op alternative as "a step away from the government takeover of the health care system" that the GOP has pummeled.

    "I don't know if it will do everything people want, but we ought to look at it. I think it's a far cry from the original proposals," he said.

    Republicans say a public option would have unfair advantages that would drive private insurers out of business. Critics say co-ops would not be genuine public options for health insurance.

    Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson, D-Texas, said it would be difficult to pass any legislation through the Democratic-controlled Congress without the promised public plan.

    "We'll have the same number of people uninsured," she said. "If the insurance companies wanted to insure these people now, they'd be insured."

    Rep. Tom Price, R-Ga., said the Democrats' option would force individuals from their private plans to a government-run plan, a claim that the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office supports.

    "There is a way to get folks insured without having the government option," he said.

    Obama, writing an opinion piece in Sunday's New York Times, said political maneuvers should be excluded from the debate.

    "In the coming weeks, the cynics and the naysayers will continue to exploit fear and concerns for political gain," he wrote. "But for all the scare tactics out there, what's truly scary — truly risky — is the prospect of doing nothing."

    Congress' proposals, however, seemed likely to strike end-of-life counseling sessions. Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin has called the session "death panels," a label that has drawn rebuke from her fellow Republicans as well as Democrats.

    Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, declined to criticize Palin's comments and said Obama wants to create a government-run panel to advise what types of care would be available to citizens.

    "In all honesty, I don't want a bunch of nameless, faceless bureaucrats setting health care for my aged citizens in Utah," Hatch said.

    Sebelius said the end-of-life proposal was likely to be dropped from the final bill.

    "We wanted to make sure doctors were reimbursed for that very important consultation if family members chose to make it, and instead it's been turned into this scare tactic and probably will be off the table," she said.

    Sebelius spoke on CNN's "State of the Union" and ABC's "This Week." Gibbs appeared on CBS' "Face the Nation." Conrad and Shelby appeared on "Fox News Sunday." Johnson and Price spoke with "State of the Union." Hatch was interviewed on "This Week."
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_health_care_overhaul
    VICTORY!! Looks like Dems add another loss.

    “Nothing could be more dangerous to the existence of this Republic than to introduce religion into politics”

  2. #2
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Ahh yes, the Flag of American Conservatism is flying high. Hopefully we've staved off this latest assault, now its time to actually fix the system. And defend against the back door implementation of this horse .
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare


  4. #4

    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Never underestimate the power of groups of stupid people.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  5. #5

    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Croccer View Post
    Never underestimate the power of groups of stupid people.
    Did you know that Hitler also wanted healthcare?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Did you know that Hitler also wanted healthcare?
    Wanted? He passed it through. Hell, our healthcare system was based on the Nazi healthcare up untill 2006 when it was replaced by a crap insurance system.

    my sympathy to the 46 million uninsured, 25 million under-insured americans
    You need not. As our Republican friends will inform you, they are all ''undeserving, lazy people'' who only ''leech of deserving ones'' for their ''government crack''.
    Quote Originally Posted by A.J.P. Taylor
    Peaceful agreement and government by consent are possible only on the basis of ideas common to all parties; and these ideas must spring from habit and from history. Once reason is introduced, every man, every class, every nation becomes a law unto itself; and the only right which reason understands is the right of the stronger. Reason formulates universal principles and is therefore intolerant: there can be only one rational society, one rational nation, ultimately one rational man. Decisions between rival reasons can be made only by force.





    Quote Originally Posted by H.L Spieghel
    Is het niet hogelijk te verwonderen, en een recht beklaaglijke zaak, Heren, dat alhoewel onze algemene Dietse taal een onvermengde, sierlijke en verstandelijke spraak is, die zich ook zo wijd als enige talen des werelds verspreidt, en die in haar bevang veel rijken, vorstendommen en landen bevat, welke dagelijks zeer veel kloeke en hooggeleerde verstanden uitleveren, dat ze nochtans zo zwakkelijk opgeholpen en zo weinig met geleerdheid verrijkt en versiert wordt, tot een jammerlijk hinder en nadeel des volks?
    Quote Originally Posted by Miel Cools
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen,
    Oud ben maar nog niet verrot.
    Zoals oude bomen zingen,
    Voor Jan Lul of voor hun god.
    Ook een oude boom wil reizen,
    Bij een bries of bij een storm.
    Zelfs al zit zijn kruin vol luizen,
    Zelfs al zit zijn voet vol worm.
    Als ik oud ben wil ik zingen.

    Cò am Fear am measg ant-sluaigh,
    A mhaireas buan gu bràth?
    Chan eil sinn uileadh ach air chuart,
    Mar dhìthein buaile fàs,
    Bheir siantannan na bliadhna sìos,
    'S nach tog a' ghrian an àird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörg Friedrich
    When do I stop being a justified warrior? When I've killed a million bad civilians? When I've killed three million bad civilians? According to a warsimulation by the Pentagon in 1953 the entire area of Russia would've been reduced to ruins with 60 million casualties. All bad Russians. 60 million bad guys. By how many million ''bad'' casualties do I stop being a knight of justice? Isn't that the question those knights must ask themselves? If there's no-one left, and I remain as the only just one,

    Then I'm God.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis Napoleon III, Des Idees Napoleoniennes
    Governments have been established to aid society to overcome the obstacles which impede its march. Their forms have been varied according to the problems they have been called to cure, and according to character of the people they have ruled over. Their task never has been, and never will be easy, because the two contrary elements, of which our existence and the nature of society is composed, demand the employment of different means. In view of our divine essence, we need only liberty and work; in view of our mortal nature, we need for our direction a guide and a support. A government is not then, as a distinguished economist has said, a necessary ulcer; it is rather the beneficent motive power of all social organisation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfgang Held
    I walked into those baracks [of Buchenwald concentrationcamp], in which there were people on the three-layered bunkbeds. But only their eyes were alive. Emaciated, skinny figures, nothing more but skin and bones. One thinks that they are dead, because they did not move. Only the eyes. I started to cry. And then one of the prisoners came, stood by me for a while, put a hand on my shoulder and said to me, something that I will never forget: ''Tränen sind denn nicht genug, mein Junge,
    Tränen sind denn nicht genug.''

    Jajem ssoref is m'n korew
    E goochem mit e wenk, e nar mit e shtomp
    Wer niks is, hot kawsones

  7. #7
    Jaketh's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Croccer View Post

    You need not. As our Republican friends will inform you, they are all ''undeserving, lazy people'' who only ''leech of deserving ones'' for their ''government crack''.
    sounds about right

  8. #8
    LoZz's Avatar who are you?
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    my sympathy to the 46 million uninsured, 25 million under-insured americans

  9. #9
    B5C's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by LoZz View Post
    my sympathy to the 46 million uninsured, 25 million under-insured americans
    Oh yes, those poor 50 million:

    “Nothing could be more dangerous to the existence of this Republic than to introduce religion into politics”

  10. #10
    JP226's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    my sympathy to the 46 million uninsured, 25 million under-insured americans
    I don't have too much sympathy for the inter job uninsured or those that make the money to afford the system, or those that are here illegally. Real number when you get down to it is maybe 10 million, and such a small percentage would be difficult if not impossible to cover with a universal system or without. No need to sacrafice actual quality for a bleeding heart.

    Wanted? He passed it through. Hell, our healthcare system was based on the Nazi healthcare up untill 2006 when it was replaced by a crap insurance system.
    I know the point you and ferts are trying to make, but I don't know if i'd readily admit that your system was the brain child of the nazi's. They aren't typically champions of life and when you consider the descisions that have to be made to stretch coverage enough to cover everyone, it's no wonder the Nazi's came up with it.
    Sure I've been called a xenophobe, but the truth is Im not. I honestly feel that America is the best country and all other countries aren't as good. That used to be called patriotism.

  11. #11
    LoZz's Avatar who are you?
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    I don't have too much sympathy for the inter job uninsured or those that make the money to afford the system, or those that are here illegally. Real number when you get down to it is maybe 10 million, and such a small percentage would be difficult if not impossible to cover with a universal system or without. No need to sacrafice actual quality for a bleeding heart.
    Ahh yes its "only 10 million". that makes it so much more better. 50 million would make us look bad but 10 million is ok

    we manage 100% cover here. As does france, canada.... And sacrafice quality??! your 36th on the LIST and one of the worst in the western world. There are eastern european, ex-communist states higher on the list, where is the quality?!?

    Quote Originally Posted by B5C View Post
    Oh yes, those poor 50 million:

    lmao if thats what helps you and JP sleep and night then so be it. I cant belive you can be so blind to how some of your fellow countrymen live. You only have to turn on the news to see amercians who work, want health care but cant afford it. Or who cant work because there ill and as such can't afford the treatment that would let them work. Or those who work, are insured and there level of insurance doesn't cover them for the level of care they need. How can you ignor these people?! I cant belive B5C that you belive that cartoon. that no one in america wants/needs health cover but can't afford it.
    Last edited by LoZz; August 16, 2009 at 01:08 PM.

  12. #12
    B5C's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by LoZz View Post
    lmao if thats what helps you and JP sleep and night then so be it. I cant belive you can be so blind to how some of your fellow countrymen live. You only have to turn on the news to see amercians who work, want health care but cant afford it. Or who cant work because there ill and as such can't afford it.
    Um states provide their own insurance plans for people who cant afford it.

    Look at my state for an example:
    http://hrsa.dshs.wa.gov/applehealth/am_i_eligible.shtml

    “Nothing could be more dangerous to the existence of this Republic than to introduce religion into politics”

  13. #13

    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by JP226 View Post
    I don't have too much sympathy for the inter job uninsured or those that make the money to afford the system, or those that are here illegally. Real number when you get down to it is maybe 10 million, and such a small percentage would be difficult if not impossible to cover with a universal system or without. No need to sacrafice actual quality for a bleeding heart.
    .
    Hahaha! God you make me laugh!

    Quality healthcare?

    I guess you haven't had to go to the doctor very much have you? And the real number is not 10 million, sir. We have 30 million illegal immigrants in this country alone. They obviously do not have any health insurance.

    And I guess that on the off chance my health could decline rapidly over the course of the next few years, it's okay because I won't be dragging you down. There's only one thing I can say to that attitude, and I won't say it here.

    Oh yeah, most menial jobs do not pay as high as $800 a month, sir. Sorry, but you have no experience in a lot of the jobs that the poor are forced to work. Not that I'm poor, I'm lower middle class, but my dad couldn't buy my education, nor could the government. I live in a terribly poor community, known as the drug capital of Texas. Oh yeah, Texas does not pay as high as Tennessee.
    Last edited by Admiral Piett; August 16, 2009 at 11:18 PM.
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

  14. #14
    Ulyaoth's Avatar Truly a God Amongst Men
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Future Filmmaker View Post
    Hahaha! God you make me laugh!

    Quality healthcare?

    I guess you haven't had to go to the doctor very much have you? And the real number is not 10 million, sir. We have 30 million illegal immigrants in this country alone. They obviously do not have any health insurance.
    Nothing says they don't. They very well could. If they don't, well who cares?
    I'm cold, and there are wolves after me.

    Under the Patronage of the Almighty Justinian

  15. #15

    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulyaoth View Post
    Nothing says they don't. They very well could. If they don't, well who cares?
    So you wouldn't support a public health option because immigrants and a small percentage of people might abuse it? Do you know how many people abuse the current system and the drive the cost of your premiums up to your employers as well as yourself right now?

    You know, a 3% tax increase I'd take anyday over what I pay out of pocket for healthcare every month...
    Heir to Noble Savage in the Imperial House of Wilpuri

  16. #16

    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    I like JP's "the Conservative Flag is flying high" bollocks. Yeah... democrat super majority, no clear Republican leadership, complete vacuum of any response to Obama. You have to be indoctrinated to ignore that sort of thing.

  17. #17
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    I like JP's "the Conservative Flag is flying high" bollocks. Yeah... democrat super majority, no clear Republican leadership, complete vacuum of any response to Obama. You have to be indoctrinated to ignore that sort of thing.
    There is a reason why I don't like being labeled as a conservative or liberal.

    It's like, "HEY OUR TEAM WON", instead of "Lets work together to find the best compromise, perhaps each state can try out public healthcare on its own instead of a federal program?"

  18. #18
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    There is a reason why I don't like being labeled as a conservative or liberal.

    It's like, "HEY OUR TEAM WON", instead of "Lets work together to find the best compromise, perhaps each state can try out public healthcare on its own instead of a federal program?"
    A voice of reason in a room of screaming kids.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    There is a reason why I don't like being labeled as a conservative or liberal.

    It's like, "HEY OUR TEAM WON", instead of "Lets work together to find the best compromise, perhaps each state can try out public healthcare on its own instead of a federal program?"
    Yes, that's a problem. I always raise an eyebrow when people tell me there's no party organisation and line as there is in the UK.

    As far as I can see it's so much worse.

    But the OP can be ignored, really, if he declares the whole thing over just on the basis of some political maneuvering by Obama then he's not only decided his opinion on the matter but how it is going to end. Anything else he will not pay attention to.

  20. #20
    Dayman's Avatar Romesick
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    Default Re: Obama gives up on Government run healthcare

    Quote Originally Posted by Ferrets54 View Post
    Yes, that's a problem. I always raise an eyebrow when people tell me there's no party organisation and line as there is in the UK.

    As far as I can see it's so much worse.
    What makes it worse is that the partly line changes quicker than the wind, whatever suits what agenda they're pushing while they're in office, or whatever political base they're courting when they're not in office.

    Correct. It became polar and childish since 2000. I find it ironic no one seems to care that the left acted the same way the right is acting for 8 years against Bush.
    It became childish ages ago.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...election,_1964
    Goldwater had a habit of making blunt statements about war, nuclear weapons, and economics that could be turned against him. Most famously, the Johnson campaign broadcast a television commercial on September 7 dubbed the "Daisy Girl" ad, which featured a little girl picking petals from a daisy in a field, counting the petals, which then segues into a launch countdown and a nuclear explosion. The ads were in response to Goldwater's advocacy of "tactical" nuclear weapons use in Vietnam. Another Johnson ad, "Confessions of a Republican", tied Goldwater to the Ku Klux Klan. Voters increasingly viewed Goldwater as a right wing fringe candidate — his slogan "In your heart, you know he's right" was successfully parodied by the Johnson campaign into "In your guts, you know he's nuts", or "In your heart, you know he might" (as in push the nuclear button), or even "In your heart, he's too far right" (some cynics wore buttons saying "Even Johnson is better than Goldwater!")
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...election,_1828
    The campaign was marked by an impressive amount of mudslinging. Jackson's marriage came in for attack: when he had married his wife Rachel, the couple had believed that she was divorced; however, the divorce was not yet finalized, so he had to remarry her once the legal papers were complete. In the Adams campaign's hands, this became a scandal. Charles Hammond in his Cincinnati Gazette asked: “Ought a convicted adulteress and her paramour husband to be placed in the highest offices of this free and christian land?”
    I noticed that the right wing is doing the same thing as well.

    Although gun-toting bunker-building survivalists are a bit more frightening then "Code Pink".

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