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Thread: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

  1. #121
    Hrobatos's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    weird, they dont look like other turkish people

    perhaps because they arent, origin of magyar tribes very well may be turkic but arrived Magyars werent very numeorus cause the asian appereance is FAR from dominant in Hungary

    very far...

  2. #122
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    if Cumans had blonde hair and blonde eyes how can they be Turks? not by language, they could off picked up language same like hispanian, gaulic or dacian tribes did latin
    but they obviously arent Turks same as Hispanian, Gaulic or Romanians arent Italic peoples even do they speak italic language
    so what are they

  3. #123
    Kaplony's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrobatos View Post
    weird, they dont look like other turkish people
    Are you crazy? Look at him, he looks like kazak, mongolian or even japan.



    Anyway our ethnicity is still the same as our hunnic-avaric ancestors. Most of ours are turanid, pamirid or taurid type, scythic and turkic.

    perhaps because they arent, origin of magyar tribes very well may be turkic but arrived Magyars werent very numeorus cause the asian appereance is FAR from dominant in Hungary
    Magyars were more than 500.000, and they had settled beside the local hunnic and avaric populace. In the last ages peoples of the bigger towns could mix with other races, but in provincial regions they were marrying with the same ethnic what they were. I know, my mother and her family still look like tatars or uyghurs, and my father looks like alanian or ossetian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrobatos View Post
    if Cumans had blonde hair and blonde eyes how can they be Turks?
    so what are they
    Cumans were never have blonde hair. This was only one nation amongst the kypchaks or cumans. I guess you think polovets, who are relatives of the cumans. They had pale (light brown or dark blonde) hair and lighter skin - that is the reason why they got their name 'polovtsian'. Polovets are uyghurs mixed with an ancient scythic-type folk, what had lived in the Tarim basin thousands of years ago. They spoke an indoeuropean language, the tocharian. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharian_languages
    Last edited by Kaplony; March 17, 2010 at 07:03 PM.
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

  4. #124
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    then why do people write that they had blonde hair? doesnt make sence

    one tribe isn whole people, and some people write that "Cunmans had blonde hair"

    i wonder was the same way with Scythians and Sarmatians

  5. #125
    Kaplony's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrobatos View Post
    then why do people write that they had blonde hair? doesnt make sence

    one tribe isn whole people, and some people write that "Cunmans had blonde hair"

    i wonder was the same way with Scythians and Sarmatians
    All their neighbours named them on there own language, which based on which tribes were living near to them. The kypchak or cuman confederacy was their overall name, which comes from their biggest tribes or the fact that they were speaking a kipchak turkic language, like kyrgyz, kazakh, tatar, nogay, bashkir, karakalpak etc. There were many tribes and folks; the cumani (chinese: k'o-fu-áa, qun, hungarian: kun), the yellow uyghur, sari or yugar (russian: polovtsi, plauci, hungarian: palóc), the kimaks (imi, imek, later kypchak, tatar, yamak, ajlad, bajandur and lanikaz tribes /in arabic/) and also the jazyg-alans (asi, jasi, hungarian: jász) as their support tribe.

    Scythians and sarmatians were an indoiranian, europid race and different from turks (turanid race maybe came from the mixture of the europid scythians and East Asian mongoloid types).
    „Hungary is the Nation of heroes, Germany represents virtue, France represents liberty, Italy represents glory among the nations of the world. Hungary is the incarnation of valour.” - Victor Hugo

    „The Hungarian Nation is the aristocracy of heroism, greatness of heart and dignity. When will we pay back our debt towards this blessed nation that saved the West? French historians should at last show their gratitute towards Hungary, hero of Nations. This Nation lifts us up and ennobles us with their heroic example. Hungarian heroism is a manifestation of high morals.” - Jules Michelet

    „The whole civilized world is in debt towards Hungary for Her past.” - Theodore Roosevelt

  6. #126
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    i meant about them having blonde hair, about Scythian nations

  7. #127

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    People who know or don't know. All you guys talked and i laughed so hard
    Cumans: had hairy type, blue-eyes with blonde hair. They spoke Turkic language. Turkic is a race. Cumans had no clans, they were steppe tribe. "Mongol" isn't a race, just an empire name. Mongolians have nothing to do with Mongols in history. Turanian(-Turkic) DNA is R DNA. And my father's ancestors are Turkic Cumans. Blue-eyed, blonde type.. Joseph Stalin was also Cuman. Cumans have nothing to do with Slavs or Germanics. Celts-Sarmatians-Scythians are also Turanians(Turkic). Gok-Turks had balbals like Scythians. Cuman DNA=Turkic DNA, Cuman language=Turkic language. Just need research

  8. #128
    Hrobatos's Avatar Tribunus
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    You brought back 4 year okd thread. So funy to see these old posts of my. And English which is at times hard to understand

    Usual name for Asiatics is Mongoloid. I clearly stated that I used it for raciak type, to avoidn confusion with Mongolic linguisitc group.

    Ill tell you a little secret. More history you learn, more you realize its bunch of theories relying on maybes and probablys.

  9. #129
    Darios's Avatar Slava Darios!
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by CumanTurkic View Post
    People who know or don't know. All you guys talked and i laughed so hard
    Cumans: had hairy type, blue-eyes with blonde hair. They spoke Turkic language. Turkic is a race. Cumans had no clans, they were steppe tribe. "Mongol" isn't a race, just an empire name. Mongolians have nothing to do with Mongols in history. Turanian(-Turkic) DNA is R DNA. And my father's ancestors are Turkic Cumans. Blue-eyed, blonde type.. Joseph Stalin was also Cuman. Cumans have nothing to do with Slavs or Germanics. Celts-Sarmatians-Scythians are also Turanians(Turkic). Gok-Turks had balbals like Scythians. Cuman DNA=Turkic DNA, Cuman language=Turkic language. Just need research
    It'd probably be better to avoid touching this thread but fonk it I'll bite: What do Celts have to do with Turkic peoples?

    In any regard, trying to mix race with linguistics is a very bad path to go down. The Cumans (Polovtsi) were simply a confederation made up of virtually every tribe between the Aral Sea and the Danube River. Therefore when they first encountered the Russian states they had assimilated enough tribes of Western Eurasian complexion to merit the name "половъ" (straw colored). To this day there are Christian Turkic speaking people living in southern Moldova who while they are likely to be descendants of the Cumans, they also look just like other Moldovans. Of course, that doesn't mean that there aren't other descendants of the Cumans who might appear more Asiatic, it simply depends on the geographic location and the people living in the said area.

    Conquest tends to change a nation's language far more than its gene pool. That's something that many historians/armchair historians fail to realize.
    Last edited by Darios; February 15, 2014 at 02:33 PM.
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  10. #130

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    They were a turkic speaking eurasian people.

  11. #131

    Icon1 Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Darios View Post
    It'd probably be better to avoid touching this thread but fonk it I'll bite: What do Celts have to do with Turkic peoples?

    In any regard, trying to mix race with linguistics is a very bad path to go down. The Cumans (Polovtsi) were simply a confederation made up of virtually every tribe between the Aral Sea and the Danube River. Therefore when they first encountered the Russian states they had assimilated enough tribes of Western Eurasian complexion to merit the name "половъ" (straw colored). To this day there are Christian Turkic speaking people living in southern Moldova who while they are likely to be descendants of the Cumans, they also look just like other Moldovans. Of course, that doesn't mean that there aren't other descendants of the Cumans who might appear more Asiatic, it simply depends on the geographic location and the people living in the said area.

    Conquest tends to change a nation's language far more than its gene pool. That's something that many historians/armchair historians fail to realize.
    If you don't know, you won't talk man
    Turkic spoken and central asian origin Cumans have Y-DNA: R1b haplogroup and Celts too.. Ancient Celts were from Anatolia. Origin of Y-DNA: R haplogroup is Central Asia..
    Turkic Oghuz people have R1a haplogroup There are even Turkic dynasties who christianfied then have forgot their Turkicness. Basarab dynasty was of Turkic Cuman origin. Then Christian "Turkic" people in southern Moldovia aren't Cumans.. they're "Gagausian" Bechenegs.
    Gagaus means in Turkish: Gök-Oğuz.. descended from "Gök Khan" .. from Oghuz Turks: Gök Khan/Bechenegs.. Miahil Ciachir...
    Gagaus language=Anatolian Turkish/Oghuz Turkic language. As I said, if you don't know anything about this subject, first research then talk. Don't play with people's mind. Another, "Mongoloid" is an eye time comes with adaptation. Turkic people had "Europid(skull)-Mongoloid(eye=asian geograpic adaptation)" etc. However, it's enough to you guys.

  12. #132
    Darios's Avatar Slava Darios!
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by CumanTurkic View Post
    If you don't know, you won't talk man
    Turkic spoken and central asian origin Cumans have Y-DNA: R1b haplogroup and Celts too.. Ancient Celts were from Anatolia. Origin of Y-DNA: R haplogroup is Central Asia..
    Turkic Oghuz people have R1a haplogroup There are even Turkic dynasties who christianfied then have forgot their Turkicness. Basarab dynasty was of Turkic Cuman origin. Then Christian "Turkic" people in southern Moldovia aren't Cumans.. they're "Gagausian" Bechenegs.
    Gagaus means in Turkish: Gök-Oğuz.. descended from "Gök Khan" .. from Oghuz Turks: Gök Khan/Bechenegs.. Miahil Ciachir...
    Gagaus language=Anatolian Turkish/Oghuz Turkic language. As I said, if you don't know anything about this subject, first research then talk. Don't play with people's mind. Another, "Mongoloid" is an eye time comes with adaptation. Turkic people had "Europid(skull)-Mongoloid(eye=asian geograpic adaptation)" etc. However, it's enough to you guys.
    I see that you are fairly new to TWC so you are probably unaware of how often these kind of threads show up where people try to equate genetics with linguistics and ethnicity.

    Who constitutes a "Celt" has changed many times over the centuries ranging from La Tene culture, to a vast sway of Western/Central Europe, and eventually today now for Irish/Scottish/Welsh people so you trying to equate this with genetics and out of Anatolia theories are baseless. The notion of Celticity shifted with waves of conquest and domination by a military aristocracy bearing iron longswords. Imagine if we called everyone from Britannia to Mesopotamia "Romans."

    The same thing goes for Turkic peoples. Their origins may lie in East Central Asia but when the Turks migrated westwards through Eurasia they assimilated people from every tribe that they encountered. "Turk" became less and less an ethnicity and more and more a title. During the population transfers in 1922 between Greece and Turkey, all Muslims were considered "Turks" and all Orthodox Christians were considered "Greek" so you can see how ambigious this can be. Even today there are Pontic Greek speakers in northern Anatolia who were allowed to remain simply because they were Muslims. The same thing occurred north of the Black Sea. There were "Turkic" dynasties that came to power in Wallachia but paintings of Vlad Dracul or other Basarabs do not show them with an Asiatic appearance, they looked no different from other Balkans people. Gagauz people look no different from other Moldovan people, it's simply a language, culture, and name.

    I hope that you can understand how silly it is to give generalizations about equating genetics with ethnicity. These things have shifted over the years and continue to do so today.
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  13. #133

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Darios View Post
    I see that you are fairly new to TWC so you are probably unaware of how often these kind of threads show up where people try to equate genetics with linguistics and ethnicity.

    Who constitutes a "Celt" has changed many times over the centuries ranging from La Tene culture, to a vast sway of Western/Central Europe, and eventually today now for Irish/Scottish/Welsh people so you trying to equate this with genetics and out of Anatolia theories are baseless. The notion of Celticity shifted with waves of conquest and domination by a military aristocracy bearing iron longswords. Imagine if we called everyone from Britannia to Mesopotamia "Romans."

    The same thing goes for Turkic peoples. Their origins may lie in East Central Asia but when the Turks migrated westwards through Eurasia they assimilated people from every tribe that they encountered. "Turk" became less and less an ethnicity and more and more a title. During the population transfers in 1922 between Greece and Turkey, all Muslims were considered "Turks" and all Orthodox Christians were considered "Greek" so you can see how ambigious this can be. Even today there are Pontic Greek speakers in northern Anatolia who were allowed to remain simply because they were Muslims. The same thing occurred north of the Black Sea. There were "Turkic" dynasties that came to power in Wallachia but paintings of Vlad Dracul or other Basarabs do not show them with an Asiatic appearance, they looked no different from other Balkans people. Gagauz people look no different from other Moldovan people, it's simply a language, culture, and name.

    I hope that you can understand how silly it is to give generalizations about equating genetics with ethnicity. These things have shifted over the years and continue to do so today.
    Darios, don't see the facts how you want.. I'll answer to all of your "bigotic" informations. Yes I'm new here..
    Celts: have Y-DNA "R1b haplogroup.. it can be understand by their Y-DNA. They live in Ireland-England, Germany, France and other European countries I don't know/we don't know.
    Origin of "Scottish" people: Normans.. Viking origin Normans.
    Scottish Y-DNA: R1a
    Viking Y-DNA of Sweden&Russia(Slav: Vikings=cultured Vikings): R1a
    ..
    Celts: R1b.. okay? it can easily understandable, no doubt. I've been researching about Y-DNA haplogroups perhaps since 7 months my friend. I'm Cuman origin paternally, this is why I mostly research Cumans. There were so many Cuman and Becheneg population in Romania-Moldovia-Bulgaria. Perhaps you're one of them, who knows?? go for a Y-DNA test don't look it politically, you haven't thought ever as I see but never think if I'm a nationalist
    Today's "Romanian" name is just a fitting, from Roman empire. Can you find a connection about today's Romania and Roman empire??
    .
    Origin of "Turkic" name: "Turkic Khaganate" in Central Asia, the name in fact: Gok-Turk Khaganate.. our Turk name comes from there, and we.. the steppe-nomadic people, origins of ours steppe-nomadic Scythians from Eurasia, same as Sarmats-Etruscans(Rome founders),Trojans(Franks-not sure)-Thraces(Alexander the Great, Spartans)-Celts-Vikings-Alans.. as our Y-DNA says.. yes we fought with each other in history. It proves anything.
    "Turk" never became less, Turk became Muslim-Christian(Gagaus: Mihail Ciachir-Magyar-Cuman: Joseph Stalin, Janos Hunyadi-Russian Tatars: Vladimir Lenin)-Judaist(Ashkenazi Jews: Adolf Hitler, Turanian countries..) and forgot their Turkicness, but never became less. This Y-DNA password in genetics, our Turkicness can be revival from there again.
    Note: Being Turkic doesn't mean being asiatic. Being asiatic related with living in Asia. "Asiatic: Mongoloid eye" type related with cold adaptation of Asia. You can be big-eyed in west with adaptation. Turanians left the Asia and came to west.
    Ancient Turkic type: Europid with Mongoloid. Central Asian Turkic people have Europid skull with Mongoloid eye type because of Asian geography.. for example, Sultan Galiyev(Tatar), Vladimir Lenin(Tatar), Yerjan Alimbetov(Kazakh)
    Turania: Central Asia in history, now: where the Turks(racial) live. Cossacks also have Turkic "Cuman" ancestry..
    Origin of Basarab dynasty: Cuman/Kipchaks..
    Cuman Turkic people: had blonde(red type) hair with blue-eyes according to Byzantine and Arab sources. Ancient Gok-Turk rulers also had red hair type with blue-eyes according to Chinese sources. You talked as you don't know anything, how these people on the site can believe you? By the way, according to history researches.. "Basarab" is a Turkic origin name, some sources say it's "Turkic Becheneg" and another source says it's "Turkic Cuman" but it's most probably a Cuman name. As genetic shows(blue-eye, blonde<-Cuman Turkic) ..
    By the way, again.. Genghis Khagan had green-eyes with red hair according to Chinese sources. Turks can be understand by their warrior and invader features. If there is war anywere, there are also Turks there most probably.
    Did you know "Pashtuns" in Pakistan have Turkic/Oghuz ancestry from Ghaznavids and they've Y-DNA: R1a(same as Anatolian Oghuz Turks) ... the Pastuns are majority of Taliban. They fought with Soviet Union and U.S.A(still)...
    Today's Turanian population in the world with photos:
    TURANIA

    TURANIA
    Turkey: 45-55 million(others are ethnicity):

    Enver Pasha..

    ------
    Iran: 35-40 million(Safavid descended Oghuz Turks of Iran):
    Wolves of Iran


    ------
    Turanians of Hungary(Cumans-Magyars):


    ------
    etc.. more.
    Total Turanian population: +160 million with Turkey, Azerbaijan, Iran(Southern Azerbaijan), Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Russia(Chuvasishtan,Don,Zaprojye,Kumukistan,Karachai,Nogai,Astrakhan,Kazan), Romania(Cumans,Bechenegs,Tatars), Bulgaria(Cumans,Bulgars), Moldovia(Cumans,Bechenegs,Tatars) Hungary(Magyars,Cumans), Israel(Khazars), U.S.A(Khazars, Meshkethians) Finland(Ancient migrations), Japan(Ancient migrations),Ukraine(Cossacks, Judaist Turks), Serbia(Avars)
    Research about:
    Turanism in Turkey
    Turanism in Azerbaijan
    Turanism in Central Asia
    Turanism in Hungary
    Turanism in Finland
    Turanism in Japan
    Oghuz/Turkic Y-DNA: R1a
    Kipchak/Turkic(Cuman-Khazar-Wusun-Bulgar etc.) Y-DNA: R1b
    British Celtic Y-DNA: R1b
    Swedish-Norwegian-Russian-Scottish Viking Y-DNA: R1a
    Thrace Y-DNA: R
    Italian Etruscan Y-DNA: R
    Italian Trojan Y-DNA: R
    Tocharian Y-DNA: R1a
    Spanish Basque Y-DNA: R1b
    Spanish Galician Y-DNA: R1b
    Spanish Alan Y-DNA: R1a
    All of these ancient tribes: were steppe-nomadic...
    We left asia with the "Andoronovo-Kurgan" migration cultures.. it looks like how the Hunnic tribes have left Asia and invaded Europe.
    Our common ancestry: Scythians-Sarmats.

  14. #134
    Darios's Avatar Slava Darios!
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    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    You did not need to write a novel for me to understand that you're a believer in the theory of Turanism. I'll leave you with your thoughts and ideas
    Last edited by Gigantus; December 15, 2014 at 01:20 AM. Reason: No, he did not
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  15. #135

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    Quote Originally Posted by Darios View Post
    You did not need to write a novel for me to understand that you're a believer in the theory of Turanism. I'll leave you with your thoughts and ideas
    Personal references and off topic removed. Please do not repeat that.
    Last edited by Gigantus; December 15, 2014 at 01:21 AM.

  16. #136

    Default Re: Are Cumans Mongol or Turkic orgin

    I can prove with my 100 years old grandma, everything what said Kaplony is true since 1914. What´s happend before 1914, I just believe and know as he said too. I dont read any books, or researches, I´ve just listend the truth about czechs, slovaks, germans, serbs, ukrans, jews, gypsys, russians and romanians from a person, who was there! Everybody can say everything, but till only a few magyar exist, they will always know, we are the greatest and proudest nation of the world, sorry, but we (not the brainwashed from XXI.century) born with this in our blood

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